The 2d20 system is not an inherently narrative system. I have thoroughly played Mutant Chronicles and apart from the - admittedly - divorced "threat" mechanism, it is a very lean, yet oddly detailed mid-weight. I like the simple, but cool hit location/wound system.

Isn't that a bit like saying, "Apart from the cannibism and murder, Hannibal Lecter is quite a charming fellow"? Which I suppose he is (apart from the murder and cannibalism).

Seriously, when we discussed this recently in the context of Conan, wasn't it pointed out that "threat" and the way it works is a real thing in the world of Mutant Chronicles? So, not very narrative there, but pretty contrived for Conan and John Carter.

I gave up on licensed games a long time ago. Not worth getting your hopes up in general.

Quote from: One Horse Town;841602I gave up on licensed games a long time ago. Not worth getting your hopes up in general.

Having done three now. I can say that they are a total bitch to work on and work with. Something invariably goes off kilter dealing with the IP owners  somewhere. Been the same with IP games I was playtesting for too. Know what you are getting into thoroughly. Gurps and Macross and a few others are good examples of how to do it right even with the hassles.

Quote from: Arminius;841600Isn't that a bit like saying, "Apart from the cannibism and murder, Hannibal Lecter is quite a charming fellow"? Which I suppose he is (apart from the murder and cannibalism).

Seriously, when we discussed this recently in the context of Conan, wasn't it pointed out that "threat" and the way it works is a real thing in the world of Mutant Chronicles? So, not very narrative there, but pretty contrived for Conan and John Carter.

Agreed. You could make the argument in some settings that the character choosing to draw upon some power to get extra dice results in some form of backlash, but Hyboria isn't one of them.

The choice to get extra dice is totally in the hands of the player, but Conan isn't choosing to gain extra dice knowing that later on, somewhere, an encounter will become harder.  So why do it?  Because you as a player are consciously making a decision to alter the rules of the game to skew a result towards a desired outcome, knowing full well that the same will be done to you in response, possibly forcing you to gain extra dice again, and on it goes.  You're looking down on your character from above and choosing what happens outside the character's normal abilities, you're exercising narrative control as a player.  The back and forth of the Threat Pool is a mechanical way to share the narration of what's happening.  If that's not Narrative, I don't know what the hell is.

Quote from: One Horse Town;841602I gave up on licensed games a long time ago. Not worth getting your hopes up in general.

Sad but true. The only sorta-recent licensed products I liked were Starship Troopers d20 and Conan d20. Most have been disappointments (recent Star Wars and Firefly especially).

Quote from: CRKrueger;841611If that's not Narrative, I don't know what the hell is.

Passing the talking stick?

Quote from: danbuter;841616Sad but true. The only sorta-recent licensed products I liked were Starship Troopers d20 and Conan d20. Most have been disappointments (recent Star Wars and Firefly especially).

I cannot comment on the new Firefly game, and didn't really like the old one tbh, but I have really enjoyed to new Star Wars line of games.  Then again I know people who dispise it, but man, having played every single version of Star Wars since D20, I think I can properly appreciate which were good and the flaws they had.

And Star Wars Saga was very good, until you reached high level.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;841715...having played every single version of Star Wars since D20.

Which is only SAGA and the FFG version. That's not really a lot of versions

Quote from: Bren;841720Which is only SAGA and the FFG version. That's not really a lot of versions

Brain fart, should have been D6.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;841728Brain fart, should have been D6.

Now you're talking Star Wars.

I generally avoid licensed games... I always end up feeling strapped down by canon and fan expectations.
My experience with Star Wars was people just trying to play out the events of the movies, which was lame.
Much more fun to create a custom not-Star Wars that leaves all the ends open.

The best Barsoom "RPG" would actually just be  to reprint the old John Flint Roy A GUIDE TO BARSOOM as a big-ass coffee-table book with Frazetta and Whelan art for each of the Martian races, each of the monsters, a big map of Barsoom, etc.

Add the system of your choice and go.

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;841789The best Barsoom "RPG" would actually just be  to reprint the old John Flint Roy A GUIDE TO BARSOOM as a big-ass coffee-table book with Frazetta and Whelan art for each of the Martian races, each of the monsters, a big map of Barsoom, etc.

Is this it? http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Barsoom-John-Flint-Roy/dp/0615687318
Pretty cheap on Amazon.

Quote from: CRKrueger;841611Agreed. You could make the argument in some settings that the character choosing to draw upon some power to get extra dice results in some form of backlash, but Hyboria isn't one of them.

The choice to get extra dice is totally in the hands of the player, but Conan isn't choosing to gain extra dice knowing that later on, somewhere, an encounter will become harder.  So why do it?  Because you as a player are consciously making a decision to alter the rules of the game to skew a result towards a desired outcome, knowing full well that the same will be done to you in response, possibly forcing you to gain extra dice again, and on it goes.  You're looking down on your character from above and choosing what happens outside the character's normal abilities, you're exercising narrative control as a player.  The back and forth of the Threat Pool is a mechanical way to share the narration of what's happening.  If that's not Narrative, I don't know what the hell is.

What, I'm supposed to care what someone else gains on a meta level?
Screw that noise! I'm grabbing 0-3 extra dice, depending on how important it is to the character, and the GM can have all the Threat rules award for this!

Anyone who spares the time to even think about it isn't immersed enough, at least in my book. Which is fine if immersion isn't your goal, of course!
But if it's not, why are you complaining about narrative mechanics?