Quintessential Neutral Evil?

RPGPundit · July 09, 2015, 02:38:06 AM

So, like the other two threads: Neutral Evil might in some ways be the hardest to peg down exemplars of. What character embodies this, rather than falling into the 'chaotic' or 'lawful' forms?

ThatChrisGuy · July 09, 2015, 08:15:45 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit;840659So, like the other two threads: Neutral Evil might in some ways be the hardest to peg down exemplars of. What character embodies this, rather than falling into the 'chaotic' or 'lawful' forms?

Porter (Mel Gibson's character) from Payback. He just wants his money.

Terateuthis · July 09, 2015, 08:25:37 AM

In terms of archetypal D&D influences, I'd say Cugel the Clever.

Conventional wisdom is that Cugel is chaotic evil, but I'm not convinced. Cugel causes chaos through incompetence rather than design. He's as happy to chest-beat in favor of traditions, rules, and petty bureaucracy that benefit him as he is to flout them.

Other fictional NEs: Harry Flashman, Lex Luthor, and I'll second the choice of Parker (the antihero of the novel series on which Porter, above, was based).

TristramEvans · July 09, 2015, 08:40:46 AM

Raistlin, natch

Natty Bodak · July 09, 2015, 11:20:35 AM

I'd place Vader as NE.

Brother Justin from Carnivale.

Cy Tolliver from Deadwood.

Rev Powell from Night of the Hunter, maybe? It's been a while.

Matt · July 09, 2015, 03:20:45 PM

Quote from: Terateuthis;840703In terms of archetypal D&D influences, I'd say Cugel the Clever.

Conventional wisdom is that Cugel is chaotic evil, but I'm not convinced. Cugel causes chaos through incompetence rather than design. He's as happy to chest-beat in favor of traditions, rules, and petty bureaucracy that benefit him as he is to flout them.

Other fictional NEs: Harry Flashman, Lex Luthor, and I'll second the choice of Parker (the antihero of the novel series on which Porter, above, was based).

If Lex Luthor is NE, why is he so concerned about appearing to be LG?

cranebump · July 09, 2015, 04:11:35 PM

Quote from: TristramEvans;840704Raistlin, natch

Beat me to it:-)

Terateuthis · July 09, 2015, 04:44:19 PM

Quote from: Matt;840771If Lex Luthor is NE, why is he so concerned about appearing to be LG?

I'm confused... an evil character can't pretend to be good to advance his selfish ends? (I'm not being snarky or defensive, I genuinely don't understand the objection.)

Which Luthor? Luthor's been around for 75 years and his portrayal varies depending on the year and the medium. Sometimes he's the CEO/President masquerading as an altruistic Friend to Humanity, sometimes he's the guy in the battlesuit leading the Injustice League, sometimes he's the greedhead wielding the Orange Power Ring.

That said, in retrospect, the title of the thread is "Quintessential Neutral Evil?" and since a strong (though, to me, unconvincing) case can be made that Luthor is Lawful Evil, Luthor isn't "quintessential" NE. So I retract him. Cugel, Parker, and especially Flashman are enough.

(Flashman, BTW, masquerades as a LG character to the point that he's lionized as his society's equivalent of a paladin, and he's as NE as they come.)

James Gillen · July 09, 2015, 07:43:18 PM

Petyr Baelish.

jg

apparition13 · July 09, 2015, 11:58:22 PM

Sticking with my L = society, N = group, C = individual; the answer is organized crime.

jibbajibba · July 10, 2015, 04:48:16 AM

An NE character can't just be self centred or looking after number one for me. They have to actively increasing the degree of Evil directly.

So I would include

Purple Man
Dracula
John Doe (from Se7en)

Prairie Dragon · July 10, 2015, 05:10:39 AM

Anton Chigurh.

RPGPundit · July 13, 2015, 04:35:53 AM

Yeah, maybe Littlefinger.

The Earl of Warwick, at least as I ran him in Albion too. I wouldn't be surprised if Warwick was one of the sources of inspiration for Littlefinger.

Daztur · July 13, 2015, 05:20:44 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit;841371Yeah, maybe Littlefinger.

The Earl of Warwick, at least as I ran him in Albion too. I wouldn't be surprised if Warwick was one of the sources of inspiration for Littlefinger.

Very much so. GRRM has said as much.

Omega · July 13, 2015, 05:45:29 AM

A neutral evil in D&D tends to be depicted as evil with no restrictions. They kill everyone. Whereas a chaotic evil *might* kill everyone or might not or whatever.

A couple of the original villains from slasher movies like Jason or Kruger.

Others of course read it differently. Like how some interpret Neutral Good as helping anyone. Or interpret it as always needing to balance. So if they help a villager they have to go help a monster. NE just replaces help with harm.

NE and CE are the two alignments I dont allow when I am DMing and pretty much refuse to play with as a player.