The library in the last city I lived in had this really cool old Wargaming/Rpg book. The cover had a wizard and this little demon thing on it. The rules seemed rather Byzantine from what I recall and covered both roleplaying and wargaming.

Anyone have any idea what the game in question might be? I have a mind to track down a copy.

Is it possible you're looking for this one?

http://www.amazon.com/Fantasy-Wargaming-Highest-Level-All/dp/0812828623/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1433020739&sr=8-1&keywords=fantasy+wargaming

That's it exactly! Thank ye kindly.

It is always THAT one!!!

I've seen several threads over the decade on various forums asking the same question. Apparently, those Fantasy Wargaming dudes did a great job getting their hardcover into libraries across America. I've found it in at least six libraries over the years, and also a couple battered copies in Friends of the Library book sales.

I wonder what happened to the authors. Anybody know?

The book is an odd duck from Way Back When. There is an SJW review on Amazon that pleads for no one to buy it, or even read it...because reading is the Devil! Oh wait, wasn't that the Mothers Against D&D diatribe?

Quote from: Spinachcat;834071It is always THAT one!!!

I've seen several threads over the decade on various forums asking the same question. Apparently, those Fantasy Wargaming dudes did a great job getting their hardcover into libraries across America. I've found it in at least six libraries over the years, and also a couple battered copies in Friends of the Library book sales.

I wonder what happened to the authors. Anybody know?

The book is an odd duck from Way Back When. There is an SJW review on Amazon that pleads for no one to buy it, or even read it...because reading is the Devil! Oh wait, wasn't that the Mothers Against D&D diatribe?

Huh, didn't know that. I wonder has anyone around here ever played it? Was there any follow up to it?

I didn't think it was playable. Instead, our crew stripped it for parts like we did to Arduin and various bits showed up in our AD&D games, especially with the one GM who ran a "Fantasy Europe" campaign. But that's who we treated lots of late 70s and early 80s products. Essentially everything was a grab bag to be used for D&Ding.

The historical realism promoted by Fantasy Wargaming didn't enter into my D&D campaigns, but I stole lots of chunks from it for my CoC games, aka weird medieval stuff showing up in the 1920s.

I found some followup on the game online somewhere. Salient points that remember were that the game as written was never playtested, and that Bruce Galloway, or one of his friends closely involved in the project, tragically died not long after the publication.

In spite of the "not playtested" bit, I think the game might be reasonably playable if it more of its info was presented in tabular rather than paragraph form.

This is probably my source: https://mikemonaco.wordpress.com/bruce-galloways-fantasy-wargaming/

Quote from: Arkansan;834064That's it exactly! Thank ye kindly.

Glad to be of help.

Some interesting commentary on this thread I hadn't heard before. I've only thumbed through this volume once or twice. Found it interesting but not so much I had to have it for my personal library.

Quote from: Arkansan;834073Huh, didn't know that. I wonder has anyone around here ever played it? Was there any follow up to it?

I still have my slightly water damaged copy in a box somewhere.  It was completely unplayable, but had fun subtitles for chapters like "A poignard in your codpiece!"

There was also a random "bogey table" for character creation which included things like bisexuality, a stammer, lycanthropy, and being jewish.

It's a very eccentric product. I would love to know the story of who was behind it and how it would up getting distributed through the book trade while bypassing the game world entirely.

Despite the fact that there are so many copies of this game out there, often in places where no other RPGs reached, I have never heard of anyone ever actually playing it.

EDIT: Checked out the Swords & Dorkery blog post mentioned above. Very interesting and sad (That the two main creators died young).

I had it back in the day. I keep thinking about picking up a replacement copy, as they tend to be cheap on Amazon, etc.

It was sort of an oddity amongst friends of mine; somehow all us 14 year old AD&D nerds had copies of it, and would threaten to run it one day. But not a single one of us could make heads nor tails out of it. Mostly we'd just crack it open to random pages, and try to figure out what the hell it was all about.

I think on some level, we felt we were too dumb to understand it. Like, maybe it was a game like Chivalry & Sorcery, that was just too subtle and too dense for us to understand, so instead of trying we just made fun of how dumb it was.

From what I've read recently, I gather that maybe we couldn't figure it out because simply it made no sense...

Also, I do have to say the cover illustration for FW was one I've -always- liked. I think part of the reason it didn't just fade into obscurity was simply because the cover was so great, and people feel like it really should have a good game inside...

I've read it through end to end at least twice over the years and treasure the copy a friend of mine got me.

It's largely a reaction to Tunnels and Trolls and Chivalry and Sorcery, by a wargamer.  It got published through the book trade somehow and was a pick on the sfbook club adds for years thereafter.

There's also Martin Hackett's Fantasy Wargaming which never quite decides whether it's a homebrew wargame and campaign system or an overview guide to the hobby in general.  It's actually a fun book and eventually got a second edition with the rpg rules and less hobby overview.

Quote from: Spinachcat;834071It is always THAT one!!!

I've seen several threads over the decade on various forums asking the same question. Apparently, those Fantasy Wargaming dudes did a great job getting their hardcover into libraries across America. I've found it in at least six libraries over the years, and also a couple battered copies in Friends of the Library book sales.

I wonder what happened to the authors. Anybody know?

The book is an odd duck from Way Back When. There is an SJW review on Amazon that pleads for no one to buy it, or even read it...because reading is the Devil! Oh wait, wasn't that the Mothers Against D&D diatribe?

hah! I have a pretty skathing review of it here and on RPGG. It is purely a RPG and has nothing to do with Wargaming. It was called that because that is what RPGs were called in the UK at the time.

The writers are either dead or at some point worked for Games workshop.

Its a nasty little book which oozes snobbery at near everything. The game itself is actually ok. But it flat out tells the GM to take control of the characters and force them to act certain ways if the players dont.

And yeah. Seems it was in libraries all over. You also will see it oft enough in bargain bins at book stores because no one wants it. Gee. Wonder why?

Quote from: David Johansen;834113I've read it through end to end at least twice over the years and treasure the copy a friend of mine got me.

It's largely a reaction to Tunnels and Trolls and Chivalry and Sorcery, by a wargamer.  It got published through the book trade somehow and was a pick on the sfbook club adds for years thereafter.

There's also Martin Hackett's Fantasy Wargaming which never quite decides whether it's a homebrew wargame and campaign system or an overview guide to the hobby in general.  It's actually a fun book and eventually got a second edition with the rpg rules and less hobby overview.

The real gem of the book is the historical real world setting it details. Really good stuff buried in all the spiel.

And yes. I had Martin's Fantasy Wargaming and it is a good book. Actually the first wargame book I ever read. Also seems to turn up in libraries everywhere.

The history was good, and so was the basic idea framework: magic is a two-step process of forming an ethereal link followed by up to three spells or seven commands, you have to raise mama by study, sacrifice, ecstatic dance, song, or meditation, and religion is more thoroughly defined. The problem was the mechanic used to implement the framework. It was the first game to prove that a math-centric approach does not produce a playable game.

A lesson, sadly, no one learned.