Quote from: Matt;828045Your numbers 1 and 2 made me think you were rational. Then I came to your wacky liberal-think number 3.

Yeah, I definitely need to pay more taxes so I can have an even lower quality of life for my kids. We definitely need to subsidize failing businesses by making their competitors less attractive and making the consumer pay extra if he chooses a competitor. Now pull the other one.

Please.
Grow up a bit.  The issue is competition.

Get your 'Me first' political earplugs out.  In this, I don't care if the tax is there or not.  I just want parity.  It is not fair for a brick and mortar, who hires and employs within a state, to have to charge a larger amount than someone who does not employ within a state, who does not help the local economy.

Well, I'm an odd duck in an oversaturated market.  Warhammer, D&D, and Magic are my worst sellers.  No joke.  The competition here is so heavy that Magic boosters retail for $3 Canadian.  Now, the market wasn't like that when I opened but it got there a year later.

See, I just wanted some gaming and project space to pay for itself.  The two local stores were awfully complacent and not very good.  So I figured I could offer products that they wouldn't look at and cover fairly minimal expenses on part time hours.  And yes, guilty as charged, push GURPS hard.  Yes I started a gaming store for the sake of running GURPS in 54mm, guilty as charged.

So it turns out running a gaming store is a fair bit of work, go figure.  Anyhow, I've been open three years and run a lot of GURPS, played a lot of Bolt Action, Pike and Shot, Warzone Resurrection, Flames of War, D&D 5e, Heroes Unlimited, and a bit of everything else.  But the reality is that sales have been disappointing.

A fourth gaming store, with some real money behind it, opened a year after I did and the other two stores kicked into high gear.  Local population is 60000 with maybe 100000 in the greater retail area.  So, for me, the sales come from all the stuff you can't get at the other stores rather than the mainstream stuff.  If I had money to sink into it I'd probably try to get into railroad stuff and hobbies to support something that's less saturated in these parts.

As it is I just hang in there.  Yes I've heard of the sunk cost fallacy.  But little by little my customer base is growing because the other stores all have their own little biases that mean they don't support everyone.  One day I hope to get into mail order because I'm carrying stuff you pretty much can't get anywhere else in Canada and I need to make it more accessible to people in Ontario without actually moving there.

So, I'm not exactly a professional or in the core business model.  The thing is that I believe the core business model is broken and there needs to be a better way.  So I'm looking for it, I might fail, it's entirely possible my store will never take off.  It's entirely possible that the weird gleam in my eye as I pitch my latest GURPS game drives people away.

But as I look at my very slow moving rpg selection I think saving the flgs is the wrong question for us here at therpgsite.  The question needs to be how do we make rpgs sell better in the existing marketplace so they don't get left behind.  The big obvious one is a strong and popular edition of D&D and we've got that now.  Down from that is presentation, price, availability, and desirability.

We need products that compete and draw people in, props, miniatures, dark futures with head tubes, that kind of stuff because the boxed board games next to the rpgs are packed with toy value and rpgs are generally dense books full of text, much as I love them it's not usually a selling point.

We need products with an accessible and competitive price point.  Does $100 of books look comparable to $100 of Warhammer or Warmachine to the uninitiated?  I think we need lower priced entry point products if we are to survive in the retail arena or entry point products that feel more like they're competing here.  On the other hand, Savage Worlds doesn't move all that well and they have the best point of entry value on the market.

We need products to be available.  The distribution chain sucks for rpgs and miniatures because they've been burned too often by the boom / bust cycle of gaming.  They still have cases of supplements for games with out of print core books and badly sculpted miniatures from long dead miniatures games and they are not feeling adventurous.  So things tend to be ordered once and only restocked if they sell like hot cakes.  This doesn't work well for stores, for much the same reason.  Sure you can download a core book from rpgnow, but that doesn't really help retail because they can download everything else for the game at a substantial discount.

Desirability is tough one but it's very real.  We need products that make people want them.  This is a place where GURPS just falls flat, because rules don't sell games, settings do.  Sadly, great stuff like Traveller and Discworld just lack the exposure to draw people in and don't present in a way that makes them look special at a glance.  Rifts has this in spades it runs on pure undiluted awesome without much thought for rigour, structure, indexing, editing or any of those other things that make GURPS awesome.  I use this example because it's a good diagram of where what I think is great really doesn't interact with other people's priorities.

Do we need rpgs to survive in the retail market?  I'd say yes, because people need to be able to find people and find games in meat space and the internet just isn't that great at it.  In store play is good for teaching new gamers and introducing new games but most people are more comfortable roleplaying at home and I don't think that's going to change.  What a store can offer is a place to get to know new players before bringing them into your home and finding out about their weird habits the hard way.

Future RPGing will survive electronically on social networks. Transcendance is what most role-players are wishing for ultimately anyway.

I've seen these sorts of discussions quite a few times on various forums.

For me, I don't mind paying a bit over the odds to have a place to browse and sometimes buy stuff.

In my experience though, certainly in my local area, one particular LGS are just damn rude when they acknowledge you at all and on several occasions I've just not bought something that I've gone in with an absolute intention to buy something there coz of their crappy attitude.
If you're going to run a store with stuff I want, at least try to be polite.

The other one, which is a bit of a trek away, the staff are quite nice and helpful and I end up spending money there pretty much every time I go in, if they have something I want.

Make it stronger?  Get rid of Amazon and other online retailers that can offer the same product for cheaper.  The only thing retail has going for it is impulse purchase, for when you 'want it' now.  And even that is dwindling.

The moment the internet realized that it could shop on-line, retail was done.  And no amount of wishful thinking will bring it back.

Quote from: MrHurst;827987One question though, are those discounts just on things that gather dust on the shelf or does it include things like card packs and those clixs boosters?

Those discounts are on everything, and they apply to both online and in-store purchases. For example, something new and hot, Star Wars: Armada. MSRP is $99.95 USD, which works out to $121.73 CAD as of this writing. Meeplemart is selling it for $94.95 CAD, for a 22% discount. (Really not loving the weak Canadian dollar.)

For any Canadians reading this, they have a pretty decent selection of RPGs.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;828095Make it stronger?  Get rid of Amazon and other online retailers that can offer the same product for cheaper.  The only thing retail has going for it is impulse purchase, for when you 'want it' now.  And even that is dwindling.

The moment the internet realized that it could shop on-line, retail was done.  And no amount of wishful thinking will bring it back.

Which means retail space is used for either "production" or services. Hence keep that FLGS stocked to the rafters with snacks to prevent that $ from getting serviced at the local McQuick'nEasyGreasy.

Quote from: David Johansen;828077Well, I'm an odd duck in an oversaturated market.  ...

Are you willing to update your model?

Board games, card games, collectibles, comics...  You need more variety.

How much play area do you have?

Quote from: trechriron;828170Are you willing to update your model?

Board games, card games, collectibles, comics...  You need more variety.

How much play area do you have?

This.  So much this.  According to my Canadian FLGS (And they are actually amazingly friendly) the big thing is Board Games, it's making a killing.  Magic is pretty stable as a seller, but you want to make money, go Board Games.

RPGs are dead in the retail space.

Quote from: trechriron;828170Are you willing to update your model?

Board games, card games, collectibles, comics...  You need more variety.

How much play area do you have?

Board games and RPGs...go together so well.  And Board games are huge right now.

Quote from: trechriron;828170Are you willing to update your model?

Board games, card games, collectibles, comics...  You need more variety.

How much play area do you have?

No comics no cards, again market saturation is too high here.  I agree on the variety but given that I started with $5000 freed up on a maxed out credit card I'd have to say there just isn't money to make a big change either.

I have 4 6'x4' tables and 1 8'x4' table, the shop's oddly shaped, in an old building, with very little parking (corner lot with fire hydrant, bus stop, and turn lane), there's been problems with the renters upstairs and in back its in a rough neighbourhood, had a window smashed once and there's a drain pipe in the ceiling that leaks sometimes.  Not ideal, but the rent's only on par with a one bed room apartment here.

But when it comes to updating my model, I'm more likely to jump to clothing if I come into some money.  5 major retailers closed up shop in the last three years and there's definitely room for it and having worked in screen printing for 27 years I have plenty of contacts in the distribution field.

But my point is that I'm running a losing proposition because I want to promote and grow the hobby and that's more than you can say for the other three stores.  And my market share is small but growing.

Quote from: David Johansen;828200I'm running a losing proposition because I want to promote and grow the hobby and that's more than you can say for the other three stores.  

The rival stores don't promote the hobby?  At all?

I'm still trying to wrap my head around "54mm GURPS"!

Our area is pretty well saturated - sometimes in a good way, but no doubt some of the retailers themselves curse it.  We could thin a good bit and still have plenty of stores.  Within ten minutes, I have three places to buy gaming stuff (there's a fourth that's Magic-only, I've never been there).  Within thirty minutes (either direction) and you can add six or seven more, one of them really top notch on selection and space, one a huge miniatures mecca, etc.  No complaints here.

Now, as far as rpgs go?  I can only anecdotally talk about two FLGS with which I've had involvement.

The first is the comic shop where I currently run some games.  It is definitely a comic shop first and a gaming shop second, but it's maybe the best/biggest comic shop in the state.  They have a meager selection of current rpg offerings (aka the big stuff), a decent selection of some vintage stuff (that's overpriced imho).  Good amount of gaming space, with well-socialized MtG and Clix type groups.  I run 5e there, and it's been difficult to easily drum up players.

The second is a smaller, games-only shop with a good selection of board and card games, excellent rpg selection, and some minis.  It's closer to my work, so I've run some games there.  Much smaller space, much younger store.  Like most stores, MtG is the bread and butter, but this store actually makes some good money on rpg sales, because they know the product and push it and run events.  You want a full selection of Dungeon Crawl Classics stuff?  This is the only FLGS in the state that has it.  A few of the others have the core book, but this store stocks the whole line, runs it weekly*, encourages people to come try it.  Ditto Pathfinder, ditto 5e.  I think it makes a difference.

RPGs that sit on dusty shelves will stay there.  Customers need to see the games being played, get a sense of community.  It's nice to have a retail clerk say "Oh, hey, if you're interested in [Game X], you should talk to so-and-so who runs it here on Thursdays."

RPGs are a social hobby.  Maybe they're best promoted socially!

( * and has an entire wall full of tombstones with PC names and manner-of-demise on it )

Quote from: VectorSigma;828207The second is a smaller, games-only shop with a good selection of board and card games, excellent rpg selection, and some minis.  It's closer to my work, so I've run some games there.  Much smaller space, much younger store.  Like most stores, MtG is the bread and butter, but this store actually makes some good money on rpg sales, because they know the product and push it and run events.  You want a full selection of Dungeon Crawl Classics stuff?  This is the only FLGS in the state that has it.  A few of the others have the core book, but this store stocks the whole line, runs it weekly*, encourages people to come try it.  Ditto Pathfinder, ditto 5e.  I think it makes a difference.

RPGs that sit on dusty shelves will stay there.  Customers need to see the games being played, get a sense of community.  It's nice to have a retail clerk say "Oh, hey, if you're interested in [Game X], you should talk to so-and-so who runs it here on Thursdays."

RPGs are a social hobby.  Maybe they're best promoted socially!

( * and has an entire wall full of tombstones with PC names and manner-of-demise on it )

That's cool. :cool: Baltimore isn't that far away and may be worth a trip. What store is that?

Quote from: VectorSigma;828207I'm still trying to wrap my head around "54mm GURPS"!

I know right?  The hexes are 1"=3' which is 1/36 and 1/32 is closer to 1 /1/4" but it's a much more widely supported scale for anything other than modern and WWII military stuff.  I mean it's intolerable but in the end you have to make a few allowances in the name of not having to sculpt everything yourself.

One of these days I'll have enough fantasy stuff done up to do that as well as pulp and it will be glorious!

The local FLGS is doing so well, it opened up a satellite store 20 miles south, in direct competition with an entrenched gaming store.  (As against that, it's located a stone's throw from the University of Massachusetts campus, which one might consider to be fertile ground.)

Now we're not talking a heavily populated area.  The flagship store's in a town of 17,000 people, the least populous mainland county seat in Massachusetts, in a county with half as many people as the next smallest county in mainland Massachusetts.

How does it do it?  It's brightly lit.  It's roomy, airy and clean.  It's principally a board gaming store, and it's got sections catering to children's games, hardcore poker players, and hardcore dart throwers.  There are three large gaming tables, mostly patronized by the Warhammer and CCG crowds.  There are frequent CCG tournaments, and to all these people, the proprietor sells cold soft drinks and snacks.  He holds a couple of open houses a year, heavily advertised in town, where the public's invited in to play 15-20 minute whirlwind sessions at board games spread over every available surface, and participants get tickets that can be used for the auction of games and materials at the end of the night.  Free pizza and soft drinks for all, by the bye.