A second shot for a shit property. Some folks don't read the market very well; the same folks who didn't buy before won't buy now, and the same folks who didn't play then won't now.

Forty years, folks. We've had TRPGs for forty fucking years now. We now what works, and what doesn't. This shit doesn't work, and it's long past time to start viciously punishing fools who keep trying to pull a Canute.

As for the blog statement, I am not partial to heavy handed politicizing in rpgs, but then again, it is only a blog.  

It is curious to see some D20 children cavorting off to other OGL games.  I do recall our shotgun-toting, duster rocking Korean (Korean-American?) member did an OGC conversion of Blue Rose at one point that was rather unwelcomed by Mr. Pramas.  What are Mr. Kim's thoughts on this matter?

Cool. I definitely liked the Blue Rose setting. Lots of options and at least a mild break from the constant Tolkien-isms of many other settings.

I haven't tried the AGE system yet, but I'm skeptical at this point that it will be too good of a fit.

Quote from: Piestrio;821651If you want an actual licensed "Romantic Fantasy" RPG check out the Deryni Adventure Game based on FUDGE.

http://www.fudgerpg.com/products/deryni-adventure/ggg6001.html

I'd have loved a sourcebook for Deryni stuff way back in the day. It's been a long, long time since I read anything by Katherine Kurtz, but my recollection is that the Deryni setting, though romantic, wouldn't align well with the stated political aims of Chris Pramas.

I have the original RPG, and it got me interested in True20. It has a good explanation of the genre its trying to represent.

Id give it a shot if someone else offered to run it, but the conversations Ive already been in over on enworld and the content of the post by Chris Pramas have yet to produce an actual reason that its worth getting. Social engineering intentions aren't selling me.

Quote from: Teazia;821655As for the blog statement, I am not partial to heavy handed politicizing in rpgs, but then again, it is only a blog.  

It is curious to see some D20 children cavorting off to other OGL games.  I do recall our shotgun-toting, duster rocking Korean (Korean-American?) member did an OGC conversion of Blue Rose at one point that was rather unwelcomed by Mr. Pramas.  What are Mr. Kim's thoughts on this matter?

Does AGE use the Open Game License?  I would be surprised if it did. Green Ronin didn't seem very comfortable with the OGL.

As for what I did, I wouldn't call it a conversion. I posted the portions of Blue Rose and True20 that were declared open content, basically exactly as they were in the books. There was some conflict over this, and I kept it password locked for a year or so, but then opened it up.

I don't know much about the AGE system, but I thought the Blue Rose setting had a lot of promise.

Here's links to my Blue Rose page, and the SRD for the original system.

http://darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/bluerose/

http://darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/srd/srd_true_romantic/index.html

Quote from: jhkim;821661Does AGE use the Open Game License?  I would be surprised if it did. Green Ronin didn't seem very comfortable with the OGL.

No, the system is completely Green Ronin, which is what they wanted according to Nicole Lindroos.

Quote from: Lynn;821660Social engineering intentions aren't selling me.

Oh, yeah. I would agree with this. I'm generally positive about diversity, but the announcement should sell the game based on how cool it is to play - not the political progress it is making or showing.

Quote from: jhkim;821658Cool. I definitely liked the Blue Rose setting. Lots of options and at least a mild break from the constant Tolkien-isms of many other settings.

In what way is the Blue Rose setting a break from Tolkienisms?

From the little I've heard about Blue Rose the two settings seem to have a lot of surface similarities in common e.g. an all powerful, all good deity; non-human beings who are both older and better than humans; rulers appointed via divine right or ancient bloodline rather than by personal might (like Conan or Kull by REH) or election by the people (like all modern, progressive societies); powerful female rulers (the Queen in Blue Rose, Galadriel in Tolkien).

What do you see as the major differences that make you see Blue Rose as a large departure from Tolkien?

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;821654A second shot for a shit property. Some folks don't read the market very well; the same folks who didn't buy before won't buy now, and the same folks who didn't play then won't now.

Given Blue Rose was one of GR's most successful properties in its time, I am pretty sure that they think more highly of it. And I think there is good reason to think that a new edition may reach new customers, even if it doesn't convince those who previously passed on buying it.

Quote from: Bren;821664From the little I've heard about Blue Rose the two settings seem to have a lot of surface similarities in common e.g. an all powerful, all good deity; non-human beings who are both older and better than humans; rulers appointed via divine right or ancient bloodline rather than by personal might (like Conan or Kull by REH) or election by the people (like all modern, progressive societies); powerful female rulers (the Queen in Blue Rose, Galadriel in Tolkien).

What do you see as the major differences that make you see Blue Rose as a large departure from Tolkien?

While there are a lot of small differences, but I'd say the key differences are talking animals and the lack of evil races - along with the psychic flavoring of magic.

Talking animals are not exactly something Tolkien hasn't used extensively: the Eagles or the Ravens of the Lonely Mountain are something that is more typical for Tolkien than for the genre his works have spawned; you could also probably include the wargs in this list (they are sentient), and perhaps even Beorn (because he actually might be a bear turning into a man, not the other way 'round).

Personally, I am not particularly interested in the setting, mostly because I do already own way more fantasy settings than I can ever play in and thus anything new has to really awe me or is not going to be anything but a quarry for ideas to steal.
However, I do like the AGE system (or rather: I liked the idea of the AGE system when they originally published it, I think that the execution could have been better), so I'll probably give it a look.

Quote from: Skywalker;821665Given Blue Rose was one of GR's most successful properties in its time, I am pretty sure that they think more highly of it. And I think there is good reason to think that a new edition may reach new customers, even if it doesn't convince those who previously passed on buying it.

No, it wasn't.

No talk. No enthusiasm in the con game scene. No enthusiasm at the LGS; copies sat unsold on the shelves for years before being cleared out for shit that moves. No one talking up their home games. None of the indicators of a successful TRPG existed.

Where did you see talk? RPGNet, GR's forums, and that's about it. Popularity is a quality marker in TRPGs due to the network requirements, and what's not at all talked about (aside from a hole-in-the-wall dive bar sort of place, and the maker) is not quality; if it's not played, it's not worth playing- and Blue Rose ain't worth playing.

And then there are those who did buy, but did not play; they bought it as a status-signaller for fellow-travellers. You don't publish for those wankers any more than you do for the screeching howler monkeys who demand all, but do nothing but screech something else when they get it. (e.g. Cook and that whinefest over The Strange) You publish TRPGs for the motherfuckers who play, the ones who are there to play a fucking game and not piss around whining over First World Bullshit and where they stand in the stack.

If I ran the LGSs in town, I wouldn't stock this; let them buy from Amazon. I'd stick strickly to proven properties that bring in players that pay, and that does NOT include the tofu-tossers blathering about Blue Rose and Soc Jus cultism like it's good for anything.

I wish them luck. I met Chris Pramas at a con years ago and he struck me as a decent dude.

Romantic Fantasy isn't my thing, but True20 was my favorite D20 iteration.

I don't like even my own flavor of politics in RPGs. I much prefer to include my own fears instead.

That said, I'm really looking forward to Pundy vs. Magic Deer, Part Deux! Orville Redenbacher makes this really tasty Lime & Salt popcorn so I stocked up just for moments like this!

...but I wonder if Blue Rose PCs can leap into an astral "Safe Space" whenever an NPC brings up a topic that triggers them...

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;821669No, it wasn't.

Green Ronin confirmed that in the two years of its limited run, it sold more than any of their other lines beside WFRP2e, which was in the top 5 best selling RPGs at that stage (and notably more than M&M).

If we are talking anecdotally as well, it received a decent amount discussion and play in the places I frequented online and offline. It's limited run, the advent of True20 and the demise of D20 did see this decline within a couple of years of its last release. But not enough to suggest that Green Ronin's confirmation wasn't genuinely made and true.