Quote from: Nexus;811844That's true and I was thinking that perhaps one of the reason The Protector was chosen for wider release in the US was that it doesn't have such extensive violence against women. I haven't seen allot of HK films but the difference is portrayals can be pretty surprising. Not that women meeting violent fates isn't depicted in US films but the tone is often very different.

The protector is edited down a bit too from the original Tom Yum Goong (in fact I think in the protector it isn;t at all clear that the woman at the end is a Lady Boy). But even Ong Bak has some rough scenes to watch.

The thing that makes the difference for me in HK movies is the women are basically able to go toe to toe with the men, so if they didn't also meet with violent fates, it would feel a bit off. These are movies where the female going around and kicking ass has been around for decades.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;811846The thing that makes the difference for me in HK movies is the women are basically able to go toe to toe with the men, so if they didn't also meet with violent fates, it would feel a bit off. These are movies where the female going around and kicking ass has been around for decades.

Which is amusing to me, as Hong Kong and the mainland were pretty hair-raisingly sexist in many other regards throughout those decades (can't speak for the present).

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;811897Which is amusing to me, as Hong Kong and the mainland were pretty hair-raisingly sexist in many other regards throughout those decades (can't speak for the present).

Its an odd, odd world sometimes. Hell, sometimes the violence done to women in those movies was ued to illustrate the inherent misogyny in those cultures.

Quote from: Nexus;811904Its an odd, odd world sometimes. Hell, sometimes the violence done to women in those movies was ued to illustrate the inherent misogyny in those cultures.

That's like the entirety of the Lifetime Movie Network. "Single White Woman in Danger," "Not Without My Daughter," "Courting Disaster," etc. Or is it just romanticized titillation? I forget.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;811843I think I could see an issue if you were exclusively having the players fight with female mooks or if the GM was dwelling on the violence against them more than is necessary. But I don't really see a problem if they just exist organically in the setting in the same way their male counter parts do.

This is a pretty good way to handle the issue, either have both men and women get it or just leave up to the players' imagination what the mooks are.

Quote from: romanov;18678102In fact, one of the turning points of my style of DMing, was an upset female player questioning the lack of women among the enemy in term of "so girls don't fight in your fantasy world? do they stay in the medieval fantasy kitchen or something?".

Has this happened to anyone?

Quote from: Nexus;812089Has this happened to anyone?

My goblinoids are effectively genderless, so...no.

Quote from: TristramEvans;812094My goblinoids are effectively genderless, so...no.

Do you use other massed and/or low end opposition aside from goblinoids in your games?

As far as I can see the prevailing perspective on the other thread is that men are inherently more violent, aggressive and mean, that violence aginst women in the real world is almost always the man's fault with woman as victim...yet there is no reason for the bulk (or even the entirety) of opposing forces intent on violence to be male because that presents the image that women are less violent than me. Well, no reason than unexamined sexism.

Quote from: Nexus;812167Do you use other massed and/or low end opposition aside from goblinoids in your games?

Not on a regular basis. I tend to prefer individual, unique monsters when it comes to fantasy. I suppose there have been some faceless cultists in one or two of my horror games, but even then, I wouldn't refer to them as massed. At most my players either barely survive being outnumbered 2 to one, or are clever enough to not allow themselves to get into a combat situation with a group of antagonists that outnumbers them to any degree.

Quote from: Nexus;812168As far as I can see the prevailing perspective on the other thread is that men are inherently more violent, aggressive and mean, that violence aginst women in the real world is almost always the man's fault with woman as victim...yet there is no reason for the bulk (or even the entirety) of opposing forces intent on violence to be male because that presents the image that women are less violent than me. Well, no reason than unexamined sexism.

I guess they aren't up on the current findings in sociology.

Or it doesn't fit "the narrative".

Quote from: TristramEvans;812200I guess they aren't up on the current findings in sociology.

Or it doesn't fit "the narrative".

Its really (and not surprisingly) become a real moral crusade over there where a GM is apparently being offensively sexist if they don't use an equal number of female thugs even if they don't to avoid making their group feel uncomfortable which I suppose applies if the women playing feel put off by it too. But who knows....

Rank me among those whose goons are so faceless, they don't have a sex. I don't know if that's a flaw or a feature.

Quote from: Nexus;811776So most of the men, even the most open minded even feminist among them to feel uncomfortable seeing men strike women even in fiction. So do many of the women.. to the point I find it almost unbelievable when some say they'd feel no different about scenes where Tony Jaa is snapping backs, twisting necks and dislocating limbs willy nilly if he was doing it to 20 women in a row as opposed to 20 men.

You apparently never had any sisters... :rolleyes:

Or as my dad said. "When someone is coming at you with a knife, (or gun) it does not matter who or what they are. Youd better fight back or you are going to die." This after the 3rd time my stepmother went nuts and tried to kill him. :eek:

If someone is trying to kill your character then etequette be damned. That is very different from playing a rampaging loony killing and beating up just random civilians.

If I only use male goons my world is unrealistic and I am deprotagonizing women!

If I use female goons I am supporting violence against women and culturally appropriating the female experience!

And if I get MONEY for a gaming product that involves women in any way I am profiting from the Patriarchy!

Oh, the horror!  The horror!  I must quit playing RPGs forever!!!!

* looks around *  Oops, sorry, wrong forum...