When did everyone having equal "authoring" power become the holy grail of RPG?

crkrueger · January 21, 2015, 07:17:55 PM

Donjion being back is awesome.

That middle article made me actually feel sorry for Stephen Lea Sheppard. I mean, Christ, I don't know why the hell he thought he could best make a world a better place and solve the ills of the human condition by writing roleplaying games, but Yes, he should definitely completely disengage from the roleplaying community and go be a real activist. Work in a soup kitchen, work at a non-profit, volunteer as a big brother, help build someone one of those mini-houses. Flush GamerGate, and AwfulPurple, and Google+ right down the shitter and then walk outside and go and make the world a better place through non-virtual actions in the non-virtual world. Seriously, he'll be way happier.

Gronan of Simmerya · January 21, 2015, 08:09:20 PM

Quote from: CRKrueger;811326Donjion being back is awesome.

That middle article made me actually feel sorry for Stephen Lea Sheppard. I mean, Christ, I don't know why the hell he thought he could best make a world a better place and solve the ills of the human condition by writing roleplaying games, but Yes, he should definitely completely disengage from the roleplaying community and go be a real activist. Work in a soup kitchen, work at a non-profit, volunteer as a big brother, help build someone one of those mini-houses. Flush GamerGate, and AwfulPurple, and Google+ right down the shitter and then walk outside and go and make the world a better place through non-virtual actions in the non-virtual world. Seriously, he'll be way happier.

That's ... amazing, but not in a good way. Fuck, sometimes a game about pretending to bash an orc on the head is just a game about pretending to bash an orc on the head.

Maybe wargamers really are different; we used to throw dice before games to see who'd play the Germans and who'd play the US, and never thought the fact that we were playing the Germans meant anything other than that we were playing a game.

Imp · January 22, 2015, 03:44:37 PM

I don't have super strong opinions about story games (besides that I would rather sit down and write a story than play a story game) but the phrase "sad pirate choices" has been making me laugh for the past two days.

TristramEvans · January 22, 2015, 04:47:30 PM

Quote from: CRKrueger;811326Donjion being back is awesome.

That middle article made me actually feel sorry for Stephen Lea Sheppard. I mean, Christ, I don't know why the hell he thought he could best make a world a better place and solve the ills of the human condition by writing roleplaying games, but Yes, he should definitely completely disengage from the roleplaying community and go be a real activist. Work in a soup kitchen, work at a non-profit, volunteer as a big brother, help build someone one of those mini-houses. Flush GamerGate, and AwfulPurple, and Google+ right down the shitter and then walk outside and go and make the world a better place through non-virtual actions in the non-virtual world. Seriously, he'll be way happier.

Funny, he used to be one of the saner mods. He drank the kool-aid hard, and the sadest part about it is that unlike many of the mods there, I think he's actually completely in earnest trying to be a decent fellow. Just....well, a little dumb.

TristramEvans · January 22, 2015, 04:55:34 PM

So, I forget, what makes a game "coherent/incoherent" according to Forge theory?

Will · January 22, 2015, 05:15:08 PM

'This is a game of exploring OR a game of trying to maximize your levels, but if you do both you are brain damaged and stupid.'

Gronan of Simmerya · January 22, 2015, 06:40:13 PM

Quote from: TristramEvans;811600So, I forget, what makes a game "coherent/incoherent" according to Forge theory?

A game is coherent if all the waves are in phase.

Oh, sorry, that's light.

Justin Alexander · January 23, 2015, 05:01:27 PM

Quote from: TristramEvans;811600So, I forget, what makes a game "coherent/incoherent" according to Forge theory?

Coherent means the game is doing one thing. Incoherent means that the game is doing many things.

Edwards later realized that this was actually hugely problematic and swapped to a spectrum between "focused" and "incoherent". This didn't actually change anything substantive about the theory, it just varied the different ways in which you were doing it wrong by trying to do more than one thing at a time.

For example, he introduced the category of "semi-adaptable" to acknowledge that a game could theoretically be trying to appeal to different types of people, but couldn't resist adding, "Whether this category even exists, or whether it merely reflects correctable incoherence, is debatable."

Will · January 23, 2015, 05:10:20 PM

If you really want to know what an unbelievably smug arrogant putz Ron Edward is, here he is to tell you that gaming wrong is abuse and leads to brain damage:

http://www.indie-rpgs.com/archive/index.php?topic=18707.0

What a colossal festering asshole.

Opaopajr · January 23, 2015, 06:41:23 PM

Quote from: Justin Alexander;811888Coherent means the game is doing one thing. Incoherent means that the game is doing many things.

Edwards later realized that this was actually hugely problematic and swapped to a spectrum between "focused" and "incoherent". This didn't actually change anything substantive about the theory, it just varied the different ways in which you were doing it wrong by trying to do more than one thing at a time.

For example, he introduced the category of "semi-adaptable" to acknowledge that a game could theoretically be trying to appeal to different types of people, but couldn't resist adding, "Whether this category even exists, or whether it merely reflects correctable incoherence, is debatable."

So that's why so many of those games seem to be laser-focused. To use the Dongion's example, milking a sheep is deeply engaging work, not to be multitasked or glossed away. Still don't see why it needs a whole table of people invested in sharing mechanics for the imagination to resolve that meaningfully, if that is at all possible.

It sounds like exploring the everyday, one task at a time, by committee. Through imagination.

crkrueger · January 23, 2015, 06:47:39 PM

Quote from: Will;811896If you really want to know what an unbelievably smug arrogant putz Ron Edward is, here he is to tell you that gaming wrong is abuse and leads to brain damage:

http://www.indie-rpgs.com/archive/index.php?topic=18707.0

What a colossal festering asshole.

We have to stop agreeing like this. In Edward's defense, he likes Howard, so he can't be all bad.

Justin Alexander · January 23, 2015, 08:22:30 PM

Quote from: Opaopajr;811925So that's why so many of those games seem to be laser-focused.

Yup. They started with "system matters", meaning that mechanics have an impact on how the game is played (which is pretty obviously true), and then concluded that the system should therefore only do one thing.

Which is like realizing that hammers, screwdrivers, and cement mixers are all useful for different things and concluding that, therefore, your toolbox should only ever have one tool in it at a time.

It's so far past right than it's not even wrong any more.

TristramEvans · January 23, 2015, 11:43:01 PM

Quote from: CRKrueger;811930We have to stop agreeing like this. In Edward's defense, he likes Howard, so he can't be all bad.

I'm not afraid of Howard. As long as you don't tell him your name, he can't steal your identity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQLdhVpLBVE

Will · January 23, 2015, 11:52:31 PM

HA!!!

Um.

I'm just glad I caught a reference.

soviet · January 24, 2015, 06:06:54 AM

Quote from: Justin Alexander;811950Yup. They started with "system matters", meaning that mechanics have an impact on how the game is played (which is pretty obviously true), and then concluded that the system should therefore only do one thing.

Which is like realizing that hammers, screwdrivers, and cement mixers are all useful for different things and concluding that, therefore, your toolbox should only ever have one tool in it at a time.

Well,no, it's more the opposite. It's saying that hammers and screwdrivers are useful for different things, therefore have both of them in your toolbox rather than carrying round a less effective multitool.