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Do you use female goons?

Started by Nexus, January 19, 2015, 01:37:17 PM

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Imperator

As frequently as it makes sense. In contemporary or sci-fi games, around 50% of the time (mercenaries, cops, security guards, the like). In historical or fantasy games quite less, but it happens when it fits the setting and situation. As someone said, in a pre-industrial society makes little sense to have the same number of warrior women as men, but you can find some.
My name is Ramón Nogueras. Running now Vampire: the Masquerade (Giovanni Chronicles IV for just 3 players), and itching to resume my Call of Cthulhu campaign (The Sense of the Sleight-of-Hand Man).

Opaopajr

I mix it up pretty well, as long it is contextual. Same with age, too, including child & elderly villains.
Spoiler
(Mermaid's Scar is a fun anime example for that one)

Everyone can provide a little slice of hell in my games.

I personally make gnolls a matriarchy like hyenas, due to their looks and possible origins. War band hyper-aggressive females makes for fun times. I exploit the heck out of anyone bleeding OOC chivalry into IC. However I do talk to players that if you have any boundaries, and my campaign will entail XYZ, please speak now or forever hold your peace (or later just leave).
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Nexus

Quote from: TristramEvans;810849I don't use "goons" or "mooks" or any of that Feng Shui 90s nonsense.

The concept offends me.

If players can easily dispatch multiple opponents, it should be because they're that badass, not because I'm artificially weakening the opponents for them.

That said, yeah, I use female antagonists. Why wouldn't I?


Being Mooks doesn't mean the characters are automatically weaker than "real" NPCs. The term can simply mean its a group of characters are that either share one stat block, a single stat block that represents a group of creatures (like swarm rules in some systems) or their stats are pared to down to the essentials.
Remember when Illinois Nazis where a joke in the Blue Brothers movie?

Democracy, meh? (538)

 "The salient fact of American politics is that there are fifty to seventy million voters each of whom will volunteer to live, with his family, in a cardboard box under an overpass, and cook sparrows on an old curtain rod, if someone would only guarantee that the black, gay, Hispanic, liberal, whatever, in the next box over doesn't even have a curtain rod, or a sparrow to put on it."

Nexus

Quote from: jibbajibba;810867Just realized how sexist I have been.
All of my mooks are males, except in female dominated groups. Gnolls, drow, spiders, etc.
There will always be female antagonists and npcs but they will be 'identified individuals' not mooks. The biker gang will all be male except for the cool one with the witty dialogue and the scatter gun. The pirates will all be male except for the twin two weapon fighting badasses, or maybe the captain.
So I realize that I am not only excluding women from the mook role. I am also making them on average far more competent than the men. Shame on me!

This is pretty much what I realized I do. Even if it doesn't come up I pretty much default to male when it comes to these types of characters. And yeah if there is a woman or women they'll be noteworthy. Even "goon" groups that are all or mostly women will women will be more developed: having a name, more motivation, etc. Which can put them right at the edge of being "mooks".

This came up during a recent game where the PCs were reconing a street gang/drug cartel and one of them asked about genders. On a lark, I made some of the game women and it came as quite a surprise to them
Remember when Illinois Nazis where a joke in the Blue Brothers movie?

Democracy, meh? (538)

 "The salient fact of American politics is that there are fifty to seventy million voters each of whom will volunteer to live, with his family, in a cardboard box under an overpass, and cook sparrows on an old curtain rod, if someone would only guarantee that the black, gay, Hispanic, liberal, whatever, in the next box over doesn't even have a curtain rod, or a sparrow to put on it."

Kiero

In my last game, historical and set in/near Massalia 300BC, none of the mooks were female. It wouldn't make any sense given in a lot of the cultures the PCs came into contact with, generally women were non-combatants if they weren't simply sequestered away out of sight.

That's not to say there aren't any female combatants. One of the PCs and some of her warband are female and warriors. There are some specific non-mook NPCs who are female combatants, but not rank and file.
Currently running: Tyche\'s Favourites, a historical ACKS campaign set around Massalia in 300BC.

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crkrueger

That's the key, "rank and file".  Exceptional women who successfully defy gender conventions could really be found anywhere.  Assuming average soldier or bandit X is a woman takes a certain culture, but in most non-historical settings it can make sense.  Also militia, criminals, basically anything not professional military is likely to have more female rank and file.
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Gold Roger

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: I have to admit, I have often given my mooks very little thought and simply defaulted to male. Which is a misrepresentation, considering I don't run remotely historical games and the male to female ratio among named askicking NPCs is close to 50-50 % in my games. I'd really laugh at any player balking at fighting or killing a female combatant NPC because of gender.

As an aside: I've also gone over to using a lot of asexual, unidentifiable gender and very non-real world reproduction dependant humanoid monsters, as I like setting them apart from PC races.

Panjumanju

I never thought about this before. I suppose there's more inherent sexism in my games than I thought. However, my semiotic representation of low-level goons is almost entirely influenced by 1980s, early 90s video games and movies, like this poster below.

//Panjumanju
"What strength!! But don't forget there are many guys like you all over the world."
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Opaopajr

Quote from: Panjumanju;810927I never thought about this before. I suppose there's more inherent sexism in my games than I thought. However, my semiotic representation of low-level goons is almost entirely influenced by 1980s, early 90s video games and movies, like this poster below.

//Panjumanju

I grew up with 80s & 90s video games and there were female mooks regularly, like in Final Fight, Golden Axe, and Streets of Rage. Often they were some of the more annoying mooks, as they emphasized DEX and hit and run tactics. Utterly annoying support as they interrupted player combos. In Golden Axe and Streets of Rage I always gunned for killing them off first before the general swarm got too big.

Those Golden Axe amazons riding the dragons die first! My riding dragon. Mine!
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Omega

Though first thing came to mind was this...


cranebump

Never thought about it, but you bet your ass I am now.:-)
"When devils will the blackest sins put on, they do suggest at first with heavenly shows..."

Shipyard Locked

Quote from: Opaopajr;810959I grew up with 80s & 90s video games and there were female mooks regularly, like in Final Fight, Golden Axe, and Streets of Rage. Often they were some of the more annoying mooks, as they emphasized DEX and hit and run tactics. Utterly annoying support as they interrupted player combos. In Golden Axe and Streets of Rage I always gunned for killing them off first before the general swarm got too big.

Final Fight? Ooh, there's a can of worms.

Final Fight had the female goon Poison, but it's interesting to note that for US releases it was considered too shocking to have red blooded American boys punching out a woman so they changed her... to a transgendered person. :(

Or something, it's actually quite complicated. You can read up about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_%28Final_Fight%29

Nexus

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;811078Final Fight? Ooh, there's a can of worms.

Final Fight had the female goon Poison, but it's interesting to note that for US releases it was considered too shocking to have red blooded American boys punching out a woman so they changed her... to a transgendered person. :(

Or something, it's actually quite complicated. You can read up about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_%28Final_Fight%29

And boy is it a shitstorm in Streetfighter fandom...
Remember when Illinois Nazis where a joke in the Blue Brothers movie?

Democracy, meh? (538)

 "The salient fact of American politics is that there are fifty to seventy million voters each of whom will volunteer to live, with his family, in a cardboard box under an overpass, and cook sparrows on an old curtain rod, if someone would only guarantee that the black, gay, Hispanic, liberal, whatever, in the next box over doesn't even have a curtain rod, or a sparrow to put on it."

TristramEvans

Is Final Fight the one where the mayor of the city decided to help fight gang violence by taking off his shirt and grabbing a 2x4?

Nexus

Quote from: TristramEvans;811100Is Final Fight the one where the mayor of the city decided to help fight gang violence by taking off his shirt and grabbing a 2x4?

Say what you want about Mayor Haggar he's not afraid of getting hands dirty.
Remember when Illinois Nazis where a joke in the Blue Brothers movie?

Democracy, meh? (538)

 "The salient fact of American politics is that there are fifty to seventy million voters each of whom will volunteer to live, with his family, in a cardboard box under an overpass, and cook sparrows on an old curtain rod, if someone would only guarantee that the black, gay, Hispanic, liberal, whatever, in the next box over doesn't even have a curtain rod, or a sparrow to put on it."