Quote from: Old Geezer;809171I pity a LOT of people in online gaming forums for the fucked up gaming groups they had.

Well ... of course this is part and parcel of "We only notice the negative on Internet forums" syndrome.  If we go by the forums, the tabletop world is full of dysfunctional lunatics, yet for some perverse reason we stick with a hobby so laden with assholes, idiots and outright psychosis.

For my part, I've *seen* a couple of screwed-up groups, and I've encountered a number of screwed-up players, but overwhelmingly, I've played with normal people in normal groups.  The only two circles I've known to have imploded dramatically had far more to do with the revelation of extracurricular bedroom activities than anything taking place around a gaming table.

Quote from: Arohtar;806560Yes, in our game it was. We distributes our scores ourselves, to be able to choose character class. I often ended up with a charisma of 6 in order to raise the other scores as much as possible. It did not really matter. You are right, we should have made the score have consequenses or thrown it out the window (we never used reaction rolls or henchmen anyway).

One of my Pathfinder Society character had a CHA of 7. But then she IS a Dwarf barbarian. Granted, my fiancée made it, and she had to follow the point-buy system that PFS makes you use. I tried to roleplay it as her being a rude jerk most of the time.

At least, I tried that after I had played her a few times and figured out what the character was.

My option, no. Its was just the opposite.

From my reading older D&D assumed the characters had a retinue of henchmen and hirelings  and would care for and equip them like  Housecarls . Its why so many of the old modules had extra magic items.

Some you'd find and keep, some you'd gift to your henchmen and some you'd never find at all. In those terms, the number of items was well suited to the party size which instead of a 5 man band was a war band, 5-8 PC officers with  henchmen. hirelings and sometimes war animals.

At "name" level this was formalized with an actual war band but those leaders were in addition to henchmen and were attracted to the characters  in world power and prestige.

This meant 9th level Lords (Fighters) say were serious power players able to field several men capable individually of killing an ogre and a small army of men at arms.

The higher the charisma, the better people reacted to you and the better you did in the end game and the higher your guys morale.  

Now later classes that weren't endgame focused did come about but remember the original 3 (Fighter, MU, Cleric) all had followers and the later add on Thief  were.

The only way in "old school," if I understand the term correclty, that one could possibly think of CHA as a "dump stat" is if one totally ignores everything about CHA in the rules including henchman loyalty and NPC reaction.

So, yeah, something ignored is unimportant.

But this then becomes about players, not rules.

Quote from: RPGPundit;806521Should, for example, someone who rolls 3d6-in-order and ends up rolling an 18 in Charisma have cause to rejoice, or should he bemoan his bad luck that it wasn't in Dexterity or Constitution?

Well, the only game I know of that's strict 3d6 in order is OD&D plus supplements.

In that game, a 17 or 18 in Charisma is the only way to become a Paladin, so my vote is for "and there was much rejoicing."  The original OD&D Paladin is awesome; so much so I'm glad they're so damn rare.  I've only had two rolled in 40 years.

Quote from: Old Geezer;810263Well, the only game I know of that's strict 3d6 in order is OD&D plus supplements.

In that game, a 17 or 18 in Charisma is the only way to become a Paladin, so my vote is for "and there was much rejoicing."  The original OD&D Paladin is awesome; so much so I'm glad they're so damn rare.  I've only had two rolled in 40 years.

IIRC, AD&D 2E also defaulted back to 3d6 in order as "method 1" for rolling up PCs, but no one ever used it.

Quote from: EOTB;810266IIRC, AD&D 2E also defaulted back to 3d6 in order as "method 1" for rolling up PCs, but no one ever used it.

I used and use it.

Quote from: Opaopajr;810293I used and use it.

Absolutism withdrawn

My LotFP and DCC campaigns both have 3d6 in order; I think that's how the rules are as written?

Quote from: RPGPundit;811293My LotFP and DCC campaigns both have 3d6 in order; I think that's how the rules are as written?

Do they have Charisma or some equivalent?  And do players treat it as important or unimportant?

Now, I will say "You have a low number, it's gotta go somewhere" is not the same as a "dump stat" to me.  I just started in a game where it was 'Roll 3d6 6 times but put the numbers where you want.'  The 8 I rolled had to go someplace, so I put it in Wisdom.

I put my 17 in Charisma, so I guess that answers your question for me.

LotFP has Charisma.  DCC has Personality.  Players in my campaigns are always acutely aware of how valuable that ability score is, by experience of play.