Quote from: Will;801005Did you read my entire post?

If you really like random generation but you don't want 'the stats to suck,' maybe you don't want random total, you want random distribution.

Which, as I've said elsewhere, is easy to do AND have a consistent point total.

Methods:
Use standard array, or maybe select one of several balanced arrays. Roll to determine which ability you put each score into.

Roll 3d6 in order. Check total. If total is too high, randomly remove points until it isn't. If total is too low, randomly add points.


There are other ways, if people care I can outline them.

That is just too many damn operations. Also you are being extremely jackassery declaring that anyone who wants to use random rolls MUST always stick with the character they rolled.

"Sorry Jim, you have to stick with your all 9s fighter in this brutally lethal dungeon crawl in which knowing you will probably die halfway through the session if not sooner so we will have stop the game so you can spend another half hour picking your shit for your replacement character"

I mean I am all for "3d6 in order suck it the fuck up," when I happen to playing/running ACKS or LotFP, but for PF extremely less so.

Quote from: Will;801005If you really like random generation but you don't want 'the stats to suck,' maybe you don't want random total, you want random distribution.

This statement doesn't make any sense.

Quote from: AxesnOrcs;801006That is just too many damn operations. Also you are being extremely jackassery declaring that anyone who wants to use random rolls MUST always stick with the character they rolled.

My point was that I think that if you have a system you declare you want, and then have to add liberal exceptions, I think it's a sign that you may have inconsistent desires in a system and some other method might work better for you.

As for 'too many damn operations':
15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8

Strength: 1d6, pick that score. Cross it off list.
Dexterity: 1d5, count over to that score, cross it off.
Constitution: 1d4, ditto.
Intelligence: 1d3, ditto.
Wisdom: 1d2, ditto
Charisma: Only one left.

That's 6 die rolls, same as before.

So, 3 tests:
10, 8, 15, 12, 13, 14 (a very healthy bard, or maybe a cleric focused on spells)
13, 8, 12, 10, 14, 15 (Cleric, an unusual fighter, bard again)
15, 8, 14, 10, 12, 13 (Fighter, cleric, barbarian...)

Hardly took much more time than, say, 3d6, 4d6 swapping, or whatnot.

Quote from: jibbajibba;800959So where is your limit?

20, 19, 16, 16, 12,9

?

Everyone has a fairness band

What does that even mean? Basically roll your dice in front of everybody and IF for some reason you get 2 18's fine. I have seen it happen once or twice but it really is an outlier. Mostly my DM was concerned about a particular floor for an ability and did things like give everybody an 18 or 17 and do 4d6d1 5 times 4-6 times pick the best array and arrange to taste. That method virtually guaranteed that nobody had a useless character and didn't advantage the good die rollers too much if they got lucky.

Quote from: Will;800999Well, I find it weird when people want a random system... and then for a bunch of exceptions when the results go bad.

It seems to me that what many random folks want is random distribution, not random point totals (which, as I've pointed out plenty of times, is fairly easy to separate)

But if you actually have a guy with a 17 in primary stat and another with 10... I think it'd be reasonably obvious, particularly if they are similar characters.

If 17-guy is a melee type, she has a +3 over the 10 guy.

Although in 5e, to be fair, the person with the 10 can get a lot more bang out of magic items and ability score bonuses. After a few boosts, she could catch up to the person with the 17 (assuming both shoot to hit 20); the person with a 17 would then have been able to boost a secondary stat, but that's probably less bang for your buck.


So 5e, on the one hand, makes a stat difference more noticeable (because of bounded accuracy and less stacking nonsense), but on the other hand the stat 20 cap and the amount of ability score increases help make up for weak stats.

Personally I prefer arrays and point buy systems but have no problem with random roll either. But in 5e it really does matter less because of the ability caps and the ability to bump up any stat multiple times in a game.

I played a Thief from 1st to 13th level in ad&d and he had the worse Dexterity of all the characters in the party.

Now, i admit that i made a joke about it once to much hilarity, but that was it. He was my guy and i didn't give a shit what the other guys had in their stats as long as they had my back when we were adventuring.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;800803You need to throw a tantrum until the DM bumps up your stats to match. It's the only mature and well adjusted thing to do.

I was under the impression that the mature and well adjusted thing to do was to repeatedly committing character suicide until you roll better than the other. Although nothing prevents from throwing a prolonged tantrum in the process.

Quote from: Korgul;801018I was under the impression that the mature and well adjusted thing to do was to repeatedly committing character suicide until you roll better than the other. Although nothing prevents from throwing a prolonged tantrum in the process.

You can only do that if you do so while making elaborate RPing pre-suicide speeches in an extremely passive-aggressive way.

You know, now I want to do a 5e game where race, class, and ability score distribution is random...

Quote from: Will;801021You know, now I want to do a 5e game where race, class, and ability score distribution is random...

4e D&D Gamma World. AKA Random World.

Random stats, random race twice, random items, random powers. Oh yeah and your powers and items randomized on a rest. (dont recall if it was short or long)

5e.
Roll a d10 for race. Reroll a 10. Flip a coin or roll a d3 for sub race
Roll a d12 for class. Flip a coin or roll a dX for path. d8 in the Wizards case.
Roll a d12 for background. On a roll of 12 flip a coin and see if you get Soldier or Urchin.
etc.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;800798I should feel gimped?

You're playing 5e, of course you're gimped.

Quote from: Omega;8010254e D&D Gamma World. AKA Random World.

Random stats, random race twice, random items, random powers. Oh yeah and your powers and items randomized on a rest. (dont recall if it was short or long)

5e.
Roll a d10 for race. Reroll a 10. Flip a coin or roll a d3 for sub race
Roll a d12 for class. Flip a coin or roll a dX for path. d8 in the Wizards case.
Roll a d12 for background. On a roll of 12 flip a coin and see if you get Soldier or Urchin.
etc.

Ooo, this seems fun... though I'll just roll 1d13 for the last bit. Let's try it with my earlier rolls:

10, 8 (+2), 15 (+1), 12, 13, 14
Race: Stout Halfling
Class: Paladin (Oath of Vengeance... ok, that's hysterical)
Background: Guild Artisan (tinkers, pewterers, and casters; full of witty aphorisms; Freedom: everyone should be free to pursue livelihood (Chaotic); I created a great work for someone, and then found them unworthy; still looking for worthy recipient; never satisfied with what I have -- I always want more)
Alignment: Here I'm going to choose... CG. While the halfling paladin is keen on justice and civilization, feels duty requires taking matters in hand.
Skills: Insight, Persuasion (from background), Insight, Intimidation (random Paladin skills)

Ok, this was fun! So we have a worldly, but intense halfling, with a potential network of contacts among tinkers and some merchants. What drove this character to an adventuring life and dedication to justice and vengeance? Oppressive kings, taxation, perhaps something like that.

13, 8, 12 (+2), 10, 14 (+1), 15
Race: Hill dwarf
Class: Rogue (ha ha) Assassin (Even better!)
Background: Sailor (I enjoy sailing into new ports and making frikends over ale; Respect: The thing that keeps a ship together is respect (Good); I'm loyal to my captain first, all else second; My pride will probably be my destruction)
Alignment: NG (ethics determined randomly)
Skills: Athletics, Perception (from Sailor), Acrobatics, Athletics, Intimidation, Performance (maybe sea shanties)

Ha, perfect path to a grizzled tough thug, but easily underestimated.

15 (+1), 8 (+1), 14, 10, 12, 13 (+2)
Race: Half-elf
Class: Barbarian (... whu? Hahahaha) Path of Totem Warrior (wolf)
Background: Sailor (seriously? Er, ok... I stretch the truth for a good story; Aspiration: someday I'll own my own ship; In a harbor town, I have a paramour who tempted me from the sea; Once I start drinking, it's hard to stop)
Alignment: (Rolled LE, but decided, given the party, that it made for sufficient problems that I flipped it to CG)
Skills: Performance, Arcana (from Half-elf), Athletics, Perception (from Sailor), Insight, Persuasion

A rather odd character, has an obvious potential link to the hill dwarf (maybe they can perform as a duet). Broadly skilled, the wolf totem abilities help the group nicely.



As I've said, I really LIKE random stuff like this and using it as a prompt to connect the dots.

Quote from: Simlasa;800845Is it weird that when I see another PC has higher stats and combat abilities I think, "Oh good, he'll keep us safe!"?

I'm there. If he's got 5% better chance to hit, he's going in the front rank.

Meanwhile, my guy with the "lesser" stats is going to try for the flank while the enemy is kept busy.

Quote from: Brad;800992The fact that I *could* win the lottery makes it patently unfair, somehow. So we need to all just play the same numbers every week in ensure equity.

Seriously, this thread is idiotic. If you don't like random rolls, don't fucking use them. Saying random rolls aren't "fair" reveals major issues with comprehending the word "random".

What about the players who look for advantages to minimize those "random rolls"?  Things like 5ft crowbars, rock drills, 10ft poles?

Quote from: Simlasa;800845Is it weird that when I see another PC has higher stats and combat abilities I think, "Oh good, he'll keep us safe!"?

Funny. I look at the high stat characters and think. "Good. The DM will kill them off first before getting to me." :cheerleader: