Now if you're saying that any game specific reason is bullshit and the only reason they did it was so people could play Southern characters without being uncomfortable, well you've either had a conversation with Hensley I haven't or you have a better crystal ball then I do.

In the game, though, the reasoning is there, and so is the supernatural impetus to push through rapid change.

I'm saying that is my suspicion. Confederate apologism is disgustingly ubiquitous in American society (and particularly in the Western genre), it would surprise me not one whit if that at least informed the decision.

I don't know Hensley well, but he seems like an alright sort, so I tend to think that if my hypothesis is right, it wasn't ideologically motivated. More likely just a matter of giving the people who would want that kind of PC what they want.

So we're back to where we started - SJW shouldn't play Deadlands.  Seriously though, your objection seems to stem more from personal politics because reasons for the change to occur other then "authorial whitewash" are there in the setting.  Deadlands is not really a setting for people who tend to let strong political, social or even religious views affect their evaluation of a game. Serious hotbutton or even trigger issues are all over the place and nowhere really given the depth of coverage or tone one expects these days in polite circles.  Deadlands is a lot like Rifts in that manner, a crazy, gonzo, wildly creative setting that's assured to offend someone.

I've been playing Deadlands: The Flood for a while (Savage Worlds).

Savage Worlds initially requires an investment in the Core rules, Deluxe, which is a cheap 9.99 purchase.

It's a generic system you can use out the box for whatever you want.

Some settings are extraordinarily self-contained. 50 Fathoms + core rules and you have everything you need to play for a year.

Deadlands though is quite expensive as a setting. Player's Guide + Marshal's Handbook + The Flood (a Plot Point Campaign book) means you are investing quite a bit to play comparative to many SW settings. Although, the initial investment means you can then buy other Deadlands PPCs like Last Son and play them next.  

If your wife wants you to run just once, check the Games>Deadlands Reloaded>Downloads on right bar part of the Pinnacle Entertainment Group (PEG) website. The Marshals section has a couple of free One Sheet downloads (Scare Crow and Feast of Famine) that you could use for a one shot to show her the system. It also has a lot more free downloads for both marshals and players.

For more extending running, the PPC books make it easier. Ted has complained about the organization of The Flood. The Last Sons book he got after (and our next Deadlands campaign) is better organized according to him.

Deadlands is less about the Wild West and more about supernatural Horror, weird gadgets, and a bizarre alt history based on my play thus far.

I'm only familiar with the Savage Worlds Deadlands Reloaded version; during the time of the original Deadlands we were playing Earthdawn. (This reminds of Deadlands except as a Fantasy Horror Apocalypse rather than a Western Fantasy Horror Apocalypse.) But Alt-History Western Fantasy Horror Apocalypse sums up the setting rather well. The events back east rarely affect you in the Wild West as we are in California for The Flood. So the alt-history back east is more back drop than anything else.  The point of the changes was to make Confederate and southern characters viable without the moral quandaries. But reversing this result isn't too hard if your group would prefer to roleplay those moral quandaries out at your table.

I made a character, Zachariah, with no Guts that deserted the Civil War for the Confederates when zombies started showing up. Unfortunately, not having the Guts skill is a major problem in Deadlands. The amount of fear checks from creatures is on a scale much greater than 50 Fathoms or Shaintar that I run. The Fear Level of the area (-2 minimum in California) is added to my -2 for not having the skill, and monsters themselves can have fear modifiers. I get to add my Grit to the roll. But at Novice +1 Grit, that is a Guts d4 -3 roll minimum, even with the wild die, the chances of success are low. And some places have a Fear Level of -5 (Almost Deadlands) or -6 (Deadlands). So needing to place a skill point in Guts or two is nearly a requirement for effective play, further limiting your skill options. The character is still alive, but has accumulated the Mark of Fear (Permanent -1 Charisma), and recently spent an entire boss fight incapacitated with a heart attack, because rolling a 20 on a fear check is bad. So Guts is a necessity and the higher the better because the fear modifiers are crippling. I've lost countless first turns to running after fear checks.

California also has a scarcity modifier which is usually x5 the prices of the core book. This has the effect of making us broke all the time. Just getting enough ghost rock to use our blimp (10 miles to the ghost rock is not a good rate) takes a lot of adventuring on our bikes (the ghost rock bikes are 100 miles to the ghost rock, a lot more efficient) and horses. Sure being broke all the time is a motivation to adventure, but it isn't good for morale. Food and water are a major sticking point, a day of food and water is $7.50 a day for a .50 cent trail ration and $1.00 canteen with an x5 modifier. And horses take twice the amount of food and water. So $22.50 a day to survive if you got a horse. And worse you can't make unskilled Survival checks in California because of the scarcity of food and water in Famine's domain. This also makes the campaign a lot grittier than normal because of the scarcity of money, food, water, ghost rock, and other resources. This means you also need Survival as a skill, further limiting skill options. So a d4 of Guts and Survival gives you 13 base skill points to define your character, and a character with a better Smarts/Spirit than d4 would be smart to increase those to at least d6, but lessens the skill pool further of the base 15 skills.

Another problem is insane skill requirements for some edges. If you want to play an Agent or a Ranger starting off you need to do the following:

Veteran of the Weird West. This makes you Seasoned (You must be Seasoned to be an Agent or Ranger). But you need Knowledge Occult and Guts (So you use an advance+4 skill). You might end up with something crippling. Like Bad Luck, Ailing [Major], or end up Harrowed starting off as has happened to many of our characters.

From here it's relatively easy to become an Agent. You need to use 3 skill points on Investigation and Knowledge Law and 4 on Fighting and Shooting, for 7 skill points, but the last 4 points you'll be spending anyway to play an agent. And you already spent the knowledge occult requirement. And 2 attribute points to up Smarts.

Ranger though has 12 skill points (They are all decent skills, but a high skill requirement). So you need to spend another advance just to get enough skill points with the initial 4 for Veteran of the Weird West just to become a Ranger. And 2 attribute points to up Vigor (but makes you tougher).

But all in all it's a lot of hoops to jump through to play a character and the edges themselves are deciding either your entire skill pool or most of it.  

Veteran of the Weird West is another sticking point, because it makes a party XP disparity (assuming they can make playable characters after they draw their Major Hindrance). Certain characters have to take it to exist (see above) but characters who don't are now 20 XP behind (In truth though it's more like 10 XP, because taking Veteran gives the XP benefit and nothing else as an edge and you get a Major Hindrance that is a penalty to the character serving as a negative advance as I like to call them).

I really don't like the Harrowed characters, because their Harrowed edges are virtually advancements x 2 and quickly have their power level outstrip the rest of the party. And being dead is actually an advantage in California because you don't need to eat or drink and get +1 Grit against fear. Although ghost rock at 100 apiece to go 100 miles via bike is more expensive than a horse going 100 miles (25 miles a day about and at 15.00 a day to eat and drink = 60).

Things I do like about Deadlands compared to regular rules are the different colored chips that can be used for extra effort to add a D6 to a die roll. But Shaintar allows all Bennies to be spent that way without caring about the chip color.

El Cheapo gear is another feature I like, because it's a rule you can import even into other SW games. You can get stuff cheaper...but there are hidden costs.

Huckster magic is still very cool as you need to make a poker hand to get power points as are the Duelist rules (although the Duelist/Quick Draw edges make it almost unfair if one person does not have them).

A Mongoose OGL Wild West setting is on sale for 1.99 on DriveThruRPG right now seems like it's more rooted in actual history than Deadlands. Even better, the free full print preview has the first few pages of the book, with the first two being a historical timeline of the West from 1803-1890 which can be useful in modifying Deadland's timeline.

Quote from: CRKrueger;790694So we're back to where we started - SJW shouldn't play Deadlands.  Seriously though, your objection seems to stem more from personal politics because reasons for the change to occur other then "authorial whitewash" are there in the setting.

I said myself that I suspect that this was a post-facto justification, i.e., indeed authorial whitewash (after a fashion).

Nonetheless it is an easy fix, the work of seconds, and the setting is more than cool enough to deserve those brief moments devoted to that fix. Frankly I'd think you would like that, it certainly seems to me that this is one of those boards where "if you don't like something about a game, you should change it at your table" is considered a matter of common sense.

QuoteDeadlands is not really a setting for people who tend to let strong political, social or even religious views affect their evaluation of a game. Serious hotbutton or even trigger issues are all over the place and nowhere really given the depth of coverage or tone one expects these days in polite circles.  Deadlands is a lot like Rifts in that manner, a crazy, gonzo, wildly creative setting that's assured to offend someone.

Indeed, that very same provocativeness is generally one of the cool things about it.

As for abolishment of slavery, actually, well - my mate's doing a PhD in Civil War (I know, a Pole going for ACW, it's madness, but then again, apparently you guys have people who are trying to be medieval experts so...), and I asked him a question regarding that. He gave me this as food for thought in this discussion:

http://www.freedmen.umd.edu/csenlist.htm
http://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Black_Confederates#start_entry

Also, if you play with alternative history, you can add that Cleburn survives to 1865, and perhaps even raises in rank, which'd give him more political influence to realise the plan he had for a long while, to liberate and conscript Southern slaves. A lot of it, as noted, comes whether Davies will be replaced, and who survives to 1865. Of course there'd be a lot of opposition to it, but that's just adventure material - you can still duel Forrest on the plains, chasing him up and down, and perhaps he himself has learned necromancy from awakening, gathering an army of Klansmen that are more than just dressed up as ghosts.

Quote from: LibraryLass;790765Frankly I'd think you would like that, it certainly seems to me that this is one of those boards where "if you don't like something about a game, you should change it at your table" is considered a matter of common sense.
Indeed, that very same provocativeness is generally one of the cool things about it.

I do like that, it's your game, do whatever.  I was just answering the notion that the "Southern Change" is not as unbelievable as it sounds once the facts of the setting are in evidence, and to simply dismiss those as "authorial whitewash" is to replace facts in evidence with facts not in evidence guided by personal opinion.  Some critics (not you) use the Slavery issue to tar not only the entire game, but Pinnacle itself.

Keeping Slaves in the South, if you alter some things, can make the setting overall much darker, as long as you keep your eye on the Prize, using Ghost-Rock bombs to make Earth one big Deadland long enough for The Reckoners to step through.  Or, you change that as well, which can make it even better.

I never said their alt-history was particularly brilliant, just that they did have one, which informs the setting decisions.