Quote from: Doctor Jest;775694This also only works because that human brain only needs to explain the concepts to other human brains who have a shared frame of reference. And it's not really emulating a living, breathing world. More like emulating an emulation of a living breathing world.

I think a pc game just needs way too many different scripts depending on every action the players can do. It's that whole interactive story thing they are trying to make for years. It usually becomes pretty lineair and the opposite of a sandbox. The only games I know that really let the world respond to what you are doing is a game like The Walking Dead. Only the options are still limited, because otherwise it would mean they have to program a zillion different scenarios.

Quote from: The Ent;775672Sounds right to me.

Fishtank = "City/town-sized sandbox mostly about people (and their goals and actions)"?

Well, that was my interpretation. Me being used to WoD city sized settings with a lot of focus on social interaction and politics. But on this site I found out a lot of people play other settings (fantasy, sf) like this as well.

I always thought people played fantasy more like a board game, very min-maxing and combat focused. Like how I used to play Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale. Making sure you use your pants +2 in the next fight and focusing on the combat roles of the characters.

Quote from: Doctor Jest;775685Until the city you are fighting to conquer or protect also happens to have a major scriptorium and library for the scroll hunter faction. And something very much like that happened in my Hellfrost game.

Yes, I don't mind that. I love that. Hellfrost has great factions. Very appealing. And I don't mind the interaction. I was just trying to point out those splats are different than vampire covenants or mage orders imo. The are all completely independent organisations doing their own thing in this world. In WoD games you form one society. There is a loose alliance between those factions and every splat fits a certain role. Which is great, but also very static. I find Hellfrost more dynamic in the way it's set up.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;775911Yes, I don't mind that. I love that. Hellfrost has great factions. Very appealing. And I don't mind the interaction. I was just trying to point out those splats are different than vampire covenants or mage orders imo. The are all completely independent organisations doing their own thing in this world. In WoD games you form one society. There is a loose alliance between those factions and every splat fits a certain role. Which is great, but also very static. I find Hellfrost more dynamic in the way it's set up.

I have only the most cursory knowledge of WoD, so I'll have to take your word for it. But I can say that having factions which are balanced against each other can also work well, especially if that balance is tenuous or fragile. At that point when the PCs enter the scene they are the proverbial bulls in the china shop that will see that delicate balance disrupted. Which in itself can be a lot of fun.

I think this is what most people do with the WoD.

WoD splats are usually with an idealogical focus. For example in vampire there is the Invictus (or the Ventrue clan in the old vamp) which is focused on power- and wealthmongering. This group is very traditional, because the current favors them. Then there are the Carthians (or the Brujah clan in the old vamp) who want radical change. They want to shake up the system either by talking or by force.

It's very unlikely these two groups want to work together. They will always be each other's nemesis and need to find some allies to make things go their way. I find this pretty static, because most games turn out the same. The relations between the factions are pretty fixed. It makes it predictable and doesn't appeal to me GM'ing such a game.

The Hellfrost factions are very practical as most fantasy splats are. They want to collect artifacts, fight for money or keep slavery at all cost, because they make money out of arena fights. There isn't a lot of words spend on how these groups relate to each other. With the exception of the Watchers of the Black Gate and the Seekers of the Black Key.

Someone once told me Fading Suns is a lot like new WoD, but I find that game much more dynamic as well. So it might just be me.