Quote from: Will;771499So, that was that.
It helped, a little, that I had found a nice Pathfinder MUSH. Playing online isn't as fun, IMO, as a good tabletop session, but good tabletop sessions were a distant memory and the advantages of playing whenever I had time was a huge plus.

Know the feeling, twice over. Except I was the DM.

As for online play. I did much the same and ended up on a Shadowrun MUD that is to-date still the most precice recreation of Shadowrun into a MU**. Suffered from some problematic admin ideals. But nothing even remotely as hellish as the Cthulhu themed MU** which turned me off of MUDs for nearly a decade.

Quote from: Necrozius;771581It's insufferable. Stuff like "it would be better to take a level of Monk" or "it is SHAMEFUL for a Fighter to use anything but a Greatsword". VOOOOMMMIIIIT

Sometimes I DMed. But it's really... unfun to have half a group that pretty much checks out whenever you describe anything.

As for MU*s... nearly all of them are fucking awful teen drama bullshit. I can count on one hand how many exceptions I've found in 20+ years (I've probably played 50+ MU*s, if only for a day until realizing that, yep, this one sucks out loud TOO. And there have been many long breaks)

Re: TBP:
The D20 forum was awesome pre-4e. 4e... obliterated it. And also poisoned most of the rest of the board.
Lately, my main interest in TBP was some of the 5e previews, hanging out with VGO folks, some cool 'let's watch' stuff in OM, and fun science articles in Tang.

But, oh well, now they can be happy with the folks saying Catholics aren't Christians. Good luck with that, you fuckers.

(yes, still bitter)

Quote from: Haffrung;771265I have a simple approach. Want to multiclass? Then do so at character generation only. Split the XP straight down the middle. Fighter/Magic-User for life. Done.

It's certainly cleaner and more explainable the way you describe.

If a 'fighter' wanted to learn 'wizardry' without any backstory, or without any real setup, I would require them to seek out a wizard for training and it would take time, not just 'bing!' you have a wizard level.

In 1E dnd I would consider allowing a fighter (per the previous example) to become a multiclassed character if they did the in play groundwork. its not that hard to just halve the characters xp.

Or 'third' it because they are breaking the normal multiclass and or dual class rules.

Count me in with Haffrung's idea for MC'ing. You pay the price with slower advancement, not to mention all the other balancing widgets the system has.

I DO think, though, you can get "MC'ing lite" using the expanded Feats (Arcane Initiate and so on). I DO like that use of Feats a great deal.

Quote from: cranebump;771798Count me in with Haffrung's idea for MC'ing. You pay the price with slower advancement, not to mention all the other balancing widgets the system has.

I DO think, though, you can get "MC'ing lite" using the expanded Feats (Arcane Initiate and so on). I DO like that use of Feats a great deal.

I'd like to see an option for 0-2e multiclassing but from what I have seen including the alpha doc multiclassing shouldn't be a big issue even with the baseline version because it's far more cleaned up then the playtest version. And just by seeing BASIC I can 90-95% guess how it will end up in the actual game.

As it stands multiclassing is far nearer to PF then 3x it's just not worth it unless you go to certain break points usually 6/10/14 in either direction.

Quote from: Marleycat;771805I'd like to see an option for 0-2e multiclassing but from what I have seen including the alpha doc multiclassing shouldn't be a big issue even with the baseline version because it's far more cleaned up then the playtest version. And just by seeing BASIC I can 90-95% guess how it will end up in the actual game.

I'd prefer it, as well. Helps deal with the "dipping" into a single level to gain some widget and makes you play a character. I wish they'd release the DM's guide sooner so I could see their hack recommendations. And having a MM would be nice, too.

You know, if they did it like AD&D multiclassing where you split your XP between classes, that sure would solve all the "just dip into class X" problems.

It also  makes more sense, IMO.  If you take a class of magic user, and cast spells during the adventure, you're going to get better just like you're getting better at swinging your sword.  Don't make sense that you'd exponentially get better with your sword (leveling up), but no better at casting spells (no leveling in MU class)

Quote from: cranebump;771808I'd prefer it, as well. Helps deal with the "dipping" into a single level to gain some widget and makes you play a character. I wish they'd release the DM's guide sooner so I could see their hack recommendations. And having a MM would be nice, too.

As I said dipping is a horrible idea. If you want a gish your best bet is Eldritch Knight or Valor Bard or War Cleric with Paladin currently. I would assume the Blade Pact Warlock will be similar. If you multiclassed into Sorcerer or Wizard for more spells you need to dip 5 levels into VB or EK for that extra attack. If you want to use spells and physical attacks at the same time? That is 14 levels in VB or EK. You also have to watch out for the fact that if you multiclass in the wrong mix you can end up with less stat bump/feat chances then even 5. And remember your archtype breakpoints are a levels 2/6/10/14/18 the stuff that makes it worth taking a class in the first place.

If you're just looking for a fighter with a couple of cantrips and a spell? Just take Magic Initiate and be be Drow, High Elf, Gnome or Tiefling and be done with it.

The best way to 'dip' is to have good options (like feats) that give a character some spell stuff without having to actually sacrifice full levels.

Quote from: Will;771821The best way to 'dip' is to have good options (like feats) that give a character some spell stuff without having to actually sacrifice full levels.

Yes, and I am also fond of the concept of trading in abilities.

For example, a Paladin that loses holy smite but gains stealth.

Quote from: Will;771821The best way to 'dip' is to have good options (like feats) that give a character some spell stuff without having to actually sacrifice full levels.

That's what magic initiate does. You could even combine it with spell sniper and Elemental Adept for a bit more tricks.

Quote from: Marleycat;771862That's what magic initiate does. You could even combine it with spell sniper and Elemental Adept for a bit more tricks.

And Ritual Caster. There was also an apprentice background in the playtest, wasn't there?

Quote from: Marleycat;771862That's what magic initiate does. You could even combine it with spell sniper and Elemental Adept for a bit more tricks.

So you can take say, a fighter, and load up on backgrounds and feats of a 'wizardly nature' ?

Sounds excellent.

Yeah, I love that shit.

3e really cured me of my natural inclination to multiclassing. Pretty much... all editions of D&D I've ever played have had various awkwardness with the idea.

The combination of alternate class stuff in Unearthed Arcana, some of the expanding cool options of splatbook feats, and then Pathfinder archetypes/feats, really got me into the mode of just having one class you adjust to taste.

Complete Mage (3.5e), I believe, has some 'you can cast some cantrips.' Complete Divine has Arcane Disciple lets wizards cast a few cleric domain spells.
UA set the stage for a more robust, open swapping of class abilities (like the sneak paladin someone mentioned).


I think all you need is a really solid melee/caster mix (bard, frex) and you have a good range of starting points to tweak rather than trying to multiclass.

Heck, I'm of the opinion that changing focus of a character should let you swap out old abilities (where plausible).