Quote from: Harshael;768846As a long time White Wolf gamer, I'm so tired of this. The old books didn't spontaneously combust, and if anyone wanted to use the old setting, they could use it with the new system. I usually ignore most of what's in the books in favor of my own stuff anyway. Now that they're restarting the oWoD line, everyone gets what they want. I've never met anyone who actually liked the metaplot, though.

Yep. Very much this.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;768848For the record they are making new books for the old settings again.

The made Hunters Hunted II, Rites of Blood and Anarchs Unbound for VtM and four new Convention books for MtAs.

You can find them here and here.

Yeah they are doing it now, but this is long after white wolf ended up being bought out by CCP.  If CCP never bought them would world of darkness still be selling, or would had the company shut down with people wondering who will get the IP?

Quote from: Harshael;768846As a long time White Wolf gamer, I'm so tired of this. The old books didn't spontaneously combust, and if anyone wanted to use the old setting, they could use it with the new system. I usually ignore most of what's in the books in favor of my own stuff anyway. Now that they're restarting the oWoD line, everyone gets what they want. I've never met anyone who actually liked the metaplot, though.

It doesn't matter if your tired of it, or not.  It really doesn't matter if the books are still floating around.  Point is there was some outrage and it did in fact piss off customers.  Not as wide scale as DnD 4th edition, but the effects are the same.  Some of them don't even bother purchasing the world of darkness products.

Quote from: Snowman0147;768877It doesn't matter if your tired of it, or not.  It really doesn't matter if the books are still floating around.  Point is there was some outrage and it did in fact piss off customers.  Not as wide scale as DnD 5th edition, but the effects are the same.  Some of them don't even bother purchasing the world of darkness products.

Didn't 4th edition already piss off most of the customers? Anyway it isn't really comparable, because the DnD changes are mostly chrunch. WoD changed crunch as well, but for the better. It's the fluff that pissed people off.

And about the CCP takeover:I believe CCP lost a lot of money on the WoD MMO. The tabletop games still sell pretty well, I guess. They never release sales statistics though.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;768889And about the CCP takeover:I believe CCP lost a lot of money on the WoD MMO.

That's quite an understatement.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;768889Didn't 4th edition already piss off most of the customers?

Oh god...  that was a typo.  I meant 4th edition.  Let me edit those things.  Sorry that was my bad.

Quote from: RPGPundit;771556That's quite an understatement.

6 million dollars last I heard.  This is after firing most of the white wolf staff and taking away their most valuable IP.  Sure Onyx Path is the old white wolf team, the vast majority of them are freelancers that get paid little in comparison to what they use to have.  They don't even own the IP that is their main money maker.  

CCP could do whatever they want with the world of darkness now.  If a company offered millions of dollars that would refill the money pit that CCP had created I think they would go for that deal.  Why wouldn't they?  It is not like they actually cared about the IP.  If they did they wouldn't be taking away people who were working on the world of darkness mmo to work on eve online.  Instead they let those world of darkness mmo developers be to work on the game.

The only question is would Onyx Path survive if they can no longer produce world of darkness books?  That is the real question that the company should ask itself.  If I were them I make a world of darkness clone in case CCP does sell off the license and the new owner prefer to make its own books instead of letting a third party make books for them.

Quote from: tenbones;768853I'm very familiar with that game. It's ANY of those things - if the GM sets up the game as such. OR it's *NONE* of those things. Its only context is if the GM *want* to use the WoD splats - and even then they have Hunter "equivalents" so you can compete. But they're certainly not required.

NWoD is a toolkit. It's whatever the GM wants it to be. You can recreate nearly any kind of horror situation without using anything from World of Darkness with it. That's how it's supposed to be used. You don't even need to put any "supernatural" shit in it.

I understand this, but I never quite "got" it. To me this usually leads to disregarding a large part of the setting and filling it up with my own stuff. Actually you really have to fill it up with your own stuff anyway, wether you ditch a part of the setting or not. It's required. Usually a lot of the cool stuff doesn't come from the setting itself, but it comes from either my own imagination or other sources. Often the latter.

If I want to come up with a cool explanation of what VII might be, I will often use the Assamite clan as inspiration. Or use Orpheus as inspiration when I go ghost/spirit hunting. Or I use Over the Edge as inspiration if I want to create an exotic setting with the Ascending ones.

This usually leaves me wondering. Is this cool thanks to the wod or despite the wod? Is this a strength or a weakness?

Quote from: Snowman0147;771583CCP could do whatever they want with the world of darkness now.  If a company offered millions of dollars that would refill the money pit that CCP had created I think they would go for that deal.  Why wouldn't they?  It is not like they actually cared about the IP.  If they did they wouldn't be taking away people who were working on the world of darkness mmo to work on eve online.  Instead they let those world of darkness mmo developers be to work on the game.

The only question is would Onyx Path survive if they can no longer produce world of darkness books?  That is the real question that the company should ask itself.  If I were them I make a world of darkness clone in case CCP does sell off the license and the new owner prefer to make its own books instead of letting a third party make books for them.

They presented the Onyx Path as a new business plan with all the books going digital and the reawakening of the old WoD. But to me it sounded more like a hostile take over gone wrong, they ditched all the WW personnel and the personnel started over and uses the licenses. CCP was really too ambitious with the WoD online.

Don't be a fool.  CCP totally bought out White Wolf and now owns its best two IPs.  Well three if you consider nWoD and oWoD as two separate IPs.  Though they did at least let Onyx Path have Scion which was really a limited line and Trinity which never been work on for years.  The people that use to work for white wolf got screwed.

The fact the MMO failed before it could be made is perhaps karma kicking CCP in the ass.  Though that is the only silver lining I can see for Onyx Path.  The fact is that CCP owns World of Darkness and could do what ever they want with it.  If another game company comes by and offers a great deal for world of darkness do you think CCP is going to resist selling the IP?  Worst case would be a rpg company coming in and make a better offer than what Onyx Path has.  If I was Onyx Path I get working on the IPs that they do own and quickly.

Quote from: Snowman0147;771686Don't be a fool.  CCP totally bought out White Wolf and now owns its best two IPs.  Well three if you consider nWoD and oWoD as two separate IPs.  Though they did at least let Onyx Path have Scion which was really a limited line and Trinity which never been work on for years.  The people that use to work for white wolf got screwed.

Yeah, I know. I had this discussion on Shadownessence a long time ago with this Kris 40K guy, who also does the darkerdays podcast. He kept talking about a new business strategy with them going digital only with print on demand. I talked about WW seeing they took a wrong turn by canceling the older games and now they went back to print old wod books again. He disagreed by saying it's just a new business strategy. I replied by saying wether it's pdf only or paper books; fact is they are writing old wod books again.

I never bought all that shit. Not the so called "cooperation" between WW and CCP and not the new business tactics of going digital allowing them to start with the old game lines again. I think the last part was because CCP opened the books and looked at the sales of the old game lines, saw they sold better and restarted those games. The pdf only thing has nothing to do with it.

You could do Hunter-ish stuff with Ghostories.

Almost any generic system -could- do it, but I agree that Hunter has its own feel to it.  I enjoy just reading the books...

Quote from: mcbobbo;772395Almost any generic system -could- do it, but I agree that Hunter has its own feel to it.  I enjoy just reading the books...

Yes, that's the thing. A lot of other games that could do it are very generic. Almost any WoD setting has it's own vibe. It might be pretentious, long-winded or dry, but it is never generic.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;772421Yes, that's the thing. A lot of other games that could do it are very generic. Almost any WoD setting has it's own vibe. It might be pretentious, long-winded or dry, but it is never generic.

But, and let me know if i have missed a trick, just use the hunter setting and drop in any generic non super system, like brp, and you are good to go.
The setting fluff doesn't presume any requirement for dice pools.