Quote from: 1989;765954One observation I have made: The crimes committed against children in our world are the greatest evil in the world. So, it's interesting how, in our RPG worlds, this evil is never present.

Actually, I've played in quite a lot of games where the welfare of children was a prime concern... the weak/defenseless being a common target for villains. The archvillain of our Earthdawn campaign left a trail of haunted/traumatized/dead children wherever he went.
Having children in peril, or avenging crimes against them, seems a common trope from what I've seen... I think because it's such common ground for outrage.

Oh, and yeah, I'm a vegetarian and I do volunteer work on the weekends (ESL and adult literacy)... but I'd still like more non-violent gaming.

Quote from: Haffrung;765958If only that were true. But we don't live in a zero-sum world where some people are poor because others are rich. The persistent poverty many in the world suffer under is due to extremely weak social infrastructures that are almost impossible for outsiders to fix. Traipsing off to Chad or the slums of Kuala Lampur and handing out money will achieve nothing. Even more coordinated aid efforts achieve little long-term good, and are frankly resented by the locals.

If you're a doctor or dentist you might be able to do some good for the poor of world. Or if you're a Bill Gates who can manufacture and distribute hundreds of thousands of water purifiers. For the rest of us, the best thing we have to offer is jobs making things for us to buy, but there's a lot of resistance to that in the West.

Of course, there's much more you can do locally. Volunteer at a homeless shelter or food bank. Lobby for public infrastructure like schools and transit in poor neighbourhoods. Or just shovel the sidewalk of the elderly couple down the street.

I slightly agree with you and understand where you're coming from. It's why I still spend money on RPGs, etc. and don't dedicate my life/wealth to helping others. I alone can't save the world. But I donate to Plan and have sponsored one child in Nicaragua for the past 8 years. It's made a real difference to his life (unless the letters we get from him are an elaborate hoax). I could easily send more money and help someone else. If we all do, we could help many. Those people can form a critical mass in their own countries and start to help themselves. Don't underestimate the cumulative effect of lots and lots of small things; that's how an avalanche starts.

I also act locally by donating to a UK charity to help children. And I look after the elderly couple two houses down from me.

There's always something more I (we) could do, but I realise there's a limit under current cultural norms and that human nature can never be beaten, we can never have a perfect happy clappy world.

Still my point to the OP remains. It's nice to respect the fallen of the past, I'm not saying we shouldn't, but while you're there, perhaps spending your mental energy respecting the present and future in some useful way would be more meaningful.

Quote from: Stainless;766000Still my point to the OP remains. It's nice to respect the fallen of the past, I'm not saying we shouldn't, but while you're there, perhaps spending your mental energy respecting the present and future in some useful way would be more meaningful.

Agreed. It's nice to honor war veterans and those who died, but it seems odd to focus so much energy in that direction when there are elderly people in every neighbourhood suffering from poverty, addiction, and depression.

Quote from: 1989;765954One observation I have made: The crimes committed against children in our world are the greatest evil in the world. So, it's interesting how, in our RPG worlds, this evil is never present. Instead ... dragons. Yeah, we avoid confronting the truly horrific evils perpetrated against children (evils that would be present in any fantasy world, actually, just as they are in our world), and instead focus on lesser evils. Escapism, I guess.

In my games, goblins and ogres abduct children and eat them. That's what makes them evil. And monsters. And that goes right back to fairy tales.

Quote from: jibbajibba;765931the trouble is though that its still a huge part of the game (the game being RPGs not any particualr game) ... The fights are the things you talk about in the pub 10 years later right. No one tells the story about how they prized the gem out of the statue's eye and it was worth 3000gp and so they made 4th level. They talk about how they were down to a handful of hit points armed with just a dagger and they charged the dragon and 5 rounds and 8 crits later it was dead and somehow they were still alive....

No, it really isn't.  Combat is as much a part of the game as you and your group want it to be.  There is absolutely nothing inherent about roleplaying that requires combat.

And perhaps the fights are what you talk about.  Not everyone.  From my perspective, 90% of what people think of as amazing combat anecdotes come down to dice luck.  My favorite combat story doesn't involve brilliant tactics, it involved the single most incredible string of dice luck I've ever had or will have (470+ open ended Rolemaster roll, for those of you who understand).  And who gives a damn about that?  If any of you cared that at a gaming table in 1987 I ripped off five straight rolls of 96+ on d100, I'd suggest you get your head examined.

In fact, my favorite tabletop story doesn't involve combat at all.  It does need a separate post.

It's not that I, personally, don't like running games with combat, or even with a lot of combat.

I refuse to run games where combat is the prime focus however.  I like a lot of exploration, and systems where the social and political spheres are supported and of prime import.

But more, I like the option to run games where the focus is far away from combat.  Nothing changes the field like options, and most games are 'balanced' around the combat roles.

My main online game, with 30-ish total sessions, has had one session with any combat at all.  Short take, the PCs are first year students in the Collegium Arcana (aged 11-13), and so learning, in depth play, tons of old mysteries and secrets, and some horror dominate.  It's a good break from a typical game, but it is really something that lets me get deeper into the roleplay and character growth.

Quote from: Ravenswing;766077In fact, my favorite tabletop story doesn't involve combat at all.

Yeah, none of my favorite RPG moments involve combat... well, maybe one. Most are situations where there was nothing to fight, or nothing that could be fought successfully.

Quote from: Haffrung;766015In my games, goblins and ogres abduct children and eat them. That's what makes them evil. And monsters. And that goes right back to fairy tales.

My games used to feature some of that. Now that I have three kids of my own, I can't do it, and have no interest in it. Any violence against kids is only alluded to, and well off-screen, on the rare occasions it is mentioned at all.

Heck, I can't even really watch a show or movie where kids are hurt. That's just how it is now.

Quote from: Zachary The First;766122Heck, I can't even really watch a show or movie where kids are hurt. That's just how it is now.

After I had kids it was the same, just plays too much into unimaginable nightmares you have as parent. Not fun.

The great thing about Fantasy is that it deals in metaphor. Metaphor is neat-- it lets you talk about things, or play with things, without directly offending anyone. Now, you can argue about the usefulness of metaphor in a game, but if you want to talk about evil without wallowing in human misery, that's the best way to handle it.  

Just remember that fantasy doesn't actually change anything outside of your head. Dear god, I wish people would remember this.

Quote from: Zachary The First;766122My games used to feature some of that. Now that I have three kids of my own, I can't do it, and have no interest in it. Any violence against kids is only alluded to, and well off-screen, on the rare occasions it is mentioned at all.

Heck, I can't even really watch a show or movie where kids are hurt. That's just how it is now.

yep.  destroys a good mood every time.

Quote from: Ravenswing;766077No, it really isn't.  Combat is as much a part of the game as you and your group want it to be.  There is absolutely nothing inherent about roleplaying that requires combat.

And perhaps the fights are what you talk about.  Not everyone.  From my perspective, 90% of what people think of as amazing combat anecdotes come down to dice luck.  My favorite combat story doesn't involve brilliant tactics, it involved the single most incredible string of dice luck I've ever had or will have (470+ open ended Rolemaster roll, for those of you who understand).  And who gives a damn about that?  If any of you cared that at a gaming table in 1987 I ripped off five straight rolls of 96+ on d100, I'd suggest you get your head examined.

In fact, my favorite tabletop story doesn't involve combat at all.  It does need a separate post.

I disagree that a great combat is about great dice rolls.
I have had great combats in Amber with no dice at all.
I also disagree that roleplay and combat are separate. I roleplay as much in a combat as I do in an encounter to buy a horse (a lot )
The great combats aren't the tales about how you threw a 3 and a 4 and I threw 2 6s and then invaded Kamchatka they are the one liners, the slick moves, the roleplay part of combat. Sometimes they are even combats you lost but lost with style.

I think part of it is that it's simply unrealistic.  People surrender, people beg and grovel, people apologize.  Player characters never do.

Quote from: David Johansen;766229I think part of it is that it's simply unrealistic.  People surrender, people beg and grovel, people apologize.  Player characters never do.

I think PCs surrender a lot and they run away plenty.

Few players would have their PC grovel or beg because few PCs show very much weakness and the weakness that is shown tends to be weakness that has some type of in game rewards, Greed, Hatred for authority, Sadism are classic RPG "disadvantages". The occassional phobia but very PCs have cowardice as a weakness.
NPCs do it all the time with a good GM but one of my pet peeves is the GM who populates their world with fearless supermen, you know when you pull a gun on the barman and rather than him caving to your roleplayed intimidation the GM plays him like Charles Bronson and then does the same thing to the taxi driver, the street level drug dealer etc etc. This is mirrored in fantasy games where monsters never run away.
I was running a sci fi game and hte PCs were foiling a bank robbery. They were confused when the round after they acted the bank robbers all tried to run away as fast as possible.

Quote from: David Johansen;766229I think part of it is that it's simply unrealistic.  People surrender, people beg and grovel, people apologize.  Player characters never do.

There's a bit in Magic World about why it might be a good idea for Adventurers to arrange for a decent ransom... just in case they need to talk their way out from under an enemy's sword. Which is has a good bit of historical precedent.