Starter set rulebook table of contents revealed.

jadrax · June 18, 2014, 03:38:20 PM

Quote from: Imp;759150Okay... what's the conceptual space between a proficiency and a skill, then? A proficiency applies to a specific type of object? Is playing the lute a proficiency or is it covered by the Performance skill?

These are all very good questions, and right now I am not sure I can answer them.

QuoteDo you get a bonus/advantage with skill checks involving objects you're proficient with?

You get your proficeny bonus, which is +2 at level 1 and scales up to +6 at level 20. This never stacks, so you can't get a a skill proficency bonus from perform and a lute (if this exists) proficency bonus.

QuoteEdit: Oh yeah and do non-weapon and weapon proficiencies come from the same pool, late 1e/2e style?

Theres no pool per say, in general most of your weapon and armour proficences are granted by class, most of your skill and tool proficencies are granted by background. But some classes also grant non weapon proficences and some races grant both.

Sacrosanct · June 18, 2014, 03:39:35 PM

Quote from: Marleycat;759157No mechanics are attached they are just guideposts really. .

maybe, maybe not. Mearls did say there were mechanics tied to them (like get advantage on a die roll if you use one of your bonds or whatever). I don't know if that mechanic will be in the starter set.

I hope not.

Sacrosanct · June 18, 2014, 03:40:10 PM

Quote from: Bill;759144So what is the purpose of rituals? Why are they not just spells?

simple answer? They don't take up precious spell slots.

jadrax · June 18, 2014, 03:41:55 PM

Quote from: Bill;759156I would like that a lot if there was a limit on spells in your book. Hopefully it is not trivial to learn them in the first place.

I suspect this will come down to how the DM handles handing out loot. I suspect wizards will get somethingh like a free spell a level and have the buy the rest. Clerics will probably get the whole lot on a plate again.

Bill · June 18, 2014, 03:43:18 PM

Quote from: Sacrosanct;759160simple answer? They don't take up precious spell slots.

I wonder if it is possible to make a 'ritual heavy' caster?

Essentially I hope you need to make hard choices between how many ritual spells and non ritual spells you 'know'

Kinda like the maximum number of spells known in 1E.

Marleycat · June 18, 2014, 03:43:28 PM

Quote from: Bill;759156I would like that a lot if there was a limit on spells in your book.
Hopefully it is not trivial to learn them in the first place.

No limit on the amount of spells in your spell book autolearn 2 spells per level but a limit on both your spell slots and actual daily prepared spells currently level+1 (They are more like a hybrid wizard/3e sorcerer mixed in with Arcana Evolved or even FantasyCraft in some ways would be the best explanation I can give it).

A good term for it that I have heard it called is Neo-Vancian.

Bill · June 18, 2014, 03:44:46 PM

Quote from: jadrax;759161I suspect this will come down to how the DM handles handing out loot. I suspect wizards will get somethingh like a free spell a level and have the buy the rest. Clerics will probably get the whole lot on a plate again.

AAAARGGHHH!

If there is one thing they can do to turn me off 5E, its going to be 'Clerics Free lunch'

I absolutely hate clerics getting 'all cleric spells'

Sacrosanct · June 18, 2014, 03:45:40 PM

Quote from: Bill;759162I wonder if it is possible to make a 'ritual heavy' caster?

Essentially I hope you need to make hard choices between how many ritual spells and non ritual spells you 'know'

Kinda like the maximum number of spells known in 1E.

Well, only certain spells are ritual. so you're limited pretty significantly in what you can actually cast as a ritual.

really, and this is just my impression, is that the whole point of rituals was to no longer require MUs to memorize identify, read magic, etc type of spells, saving those precious slots for spells that need to be cast quickly.

Sacrosanct · June 18, 2014, 03:46:56 PM

Quote from: Bill;759164AAAARGGHHH!

If there is one thing they can do to turn me off 5E, its going to be 'Clerics Free lunch'

I absolutely hate clerics getting 'all cleric spells'

Well, as originally intended to balance that out, clerics might lose access to some or all of their spells based on their god's whim of how good a job they're doing. MUs don't have to worry about that.

Bill · June 18, 2014, 03:47:26 PM

Quote from: Marleycat;759163No limit on the amount of spells in your spell book but a limit on both your spell slots and actual prepared spells (They are more like a hybrid wizard/3e sorcerer mixed in with Arcana Evolved or even FantasyCraft in some ways would be the best explanation I can give it).

A good term for it that I have heard it called is Neo-Vancian.

Hopefully that means I can, for example, prepare say six spells a day, some ritual, some vancian, but six at the most?

Marleycat · June 18, 2014, 03:50:05 PM

Quote from: Sacrosanct;759159maybe, maybe not. Mearls did say there were mechanics tied to them (like get advantage on a die roll if you use one of your bonds or whatever). I don't know if that mechanic will be in the starter set.

I hope not.

Well that could be a problem. Personally I don't care and in fact goes right into my preferences but it would be a huge problem for straight old school play. I suppose it would easiest just to never give advantage/disadvantage for them if that is your preference. And just don't use them beyond the Starter Set because they are supposed to be optional.

Bill · June 18, 2014, 03:50:10 PM

Quote from: Sacrosanct;759166Well, as originally intended to balance that out, clerics might lose access to some or all of their spells based on their god's whim of how good a job they're doing. MUs don't have to worry about that.

I would greatly prefer clerics to only get access to spells that fit the gods ethos.

Can't stand cleric of the Fire god casting cold spells 'just because they can'

Sacrosanct · June 18, 2014, 03:51:37 PM

Quote from: Bill;759169I would greatly prefer clerics to only get access to spells that fit the gods ethos.

Can't stand cleric of the Fire god casting cold spells 'just because they can'

I don't disagree. That's one thing about 2e I really liked, and incorporated into my 1e games (along with THAC0 and thief skill progressions).

There are specialty clerics in 5e, and I imagine it wouldn't be hard for a DM to say, "You worship the god of fire. You can't cast any cold based spells."

jadrax · June 18, 2014, 03:52:23 PM

Quote from: Bill;759167Hopefully that means I can, for example, prepare say six spells a day, some ritual, some vancian, but six at the most?

I honestly can't remember if you need to prepair a ritual spell or if you can just cast it if its in your book (or off your plate if you are a cleric).

crkrueger · June 18, 2014, 03:55:03 PM

Quote from: Sacrosanct;759171I don't disagree. That's one thing about 2e I really liked, and incorporated into my 1e games (along with THAC0 and thief skill progressions).

There are specialty clerics in 5e, and I imagine it wouldn't be hard for a DM to say, "You worship the god of fire. You can't cast any cold based spells."

That's where Forgotten Realms Adventures knocked my socks off, every single deity having a different type of priest. The new Hackmaster does that, except there isn't even a generic cleric, every god is unique. Really adds flavor to a setting and brings religions a little further to the forefront.