Both of these things are encouraging. Thanks!

Quote from: jadrax;754602A quote you may be interested in from Wolfgang Baur, one of the two authors of Tyranny of Dragons.

'Related to that, the power curve for magic is changing as well. I'm used to thinking of the Forgotten Realms as a very high-magic, high fantasy sort of place, but the new edition of the rules dials things back a bit from the 3rd edition and Pathfinder tradition of "PC Christmas trees", or the characters with a magic item to fill every slot.'

Quote from: Exploderwizard;754615Everything in the L&L articles so far has indicated that the inclusion of any magic items at all will be an optional component and that such items were not assumed and baked into the math of the system.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;754615Everything in the L&L articles so far has indicated that the inclusion of any magic items at all will be an optional component and that such items were not assumed and baked into the math of the system.

Basically most items are +1 or +2. And the really powerful things are usually attuned and currently you only get 3 by 20th level. It's more horizontal then vertical like 3/4e. It's reminiscent to me of 1/2e where you had 7-8 items maximum by the time you were in name level territory. Not the 15-20 like 3/4e.

yeah, magic items in 5e are turned way down compared to most other editions, especially 3e.  Which I happen to like because that +1 sword you got at 3rd level?  Still useful at 15th level.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;754714yeah, magic items in 5e are turned way down compared to most other editions, especially 3e.  Which I happen to like because that +1 sword you got at 3rd level?  Still useful at 15th level.

Yep, and those +2 bracers of defense? Literally a game tilter. To me the new paradigm is for more helpful to martial classes then magic using ones especially pure ones like wizards.

Quote from: Marleycat;754722Yep, and those +2 bracers of defense? Literally a game tilter. To me the new paradigm is for more helpful to martial classes then magic using ones especially pure ones like wizards.

I agree.  After all, it almost felt like the fighter was being cheated when he's wearing plate and shield (a key benefit of the class) just to have the MU put on bracers of defense AC 0.  With 5e, I don't see mages coming anywhere near the AC martial classes will have

Quote from: Sacrosanct;754726I agree.  After all, it almost felt like the fighter was being cheated when he's wearing plate and shield (a key benefit of the class) just to have the MU put on bracers of defense AC 0.  With 5e, I don't see mages coming anywhere near the AC martial classes will have

Hell no, at least until I see that Eldritch Knight fighter subclass or a Bladeinger Wizard subclass or how multiclassing actually works.

I did hear the Sorcerer is basically a F/M without multiclassing though...I hope I heard wrong. Something like a Magus or Swordmage would be fine given both are unique full archetypes.

Quote from: Marleycat;754711Basically most items are +1 or +2. And the really powerful things are usually attuned and currently you only get 3 by 20th level. It's more horizontal then vertical like 3/4e. It's reminiscent to me of 1/2e where you had 7-8 items maximum by the time you were in name level territory. Not the 15-20 like 3/4e.

"Attuned" as in the bind-on-equip MMO concept?  If that's what is meant, then that gives me pause.  IIRC, this was essentially the solution for the tension in an MMO between the desire to not have to camp a spawn 3 weeks in a row to get the drop you wanted and preventing the flooding of those items on the secondary/hand-me-down market.  

Off the top of my head I can't think of how that might be useful in a pen-and-paper game. What have I not thought of?

Quote from: Natty Bodak;754876"Attuned" as in the bind-on-equip MMO concept?  If that's what is meant, then that gives me pause.  IIRC, this was essentially the solution for the tension in an MMO between the desire to not have to camp a spawn 3 weeks in a row to get the drop you wanted and preventing the flooding of those items on the secondary/hand-me-down market.  

Off the top of my head I can't think of how that might be useful in a pen-and-paper game. What have I not thought of?

Yes and no.  Unlike MMOs, you can unattune any item you want and do whatever you want with it (give it to someone else, sell it, etc).  It's really just a mechanical way of representing, "by establishing a bond with your magical item, you can unlock it's full magical potential."

Quote from: Sacrosanct;754878Yes and no.  Unlike MMOs, you can unattune any item you want and do whatever you want with it (give it to someone else, sell it, etc).  It's really just a mechanical way of representing, "by establishing a bond with your magical item, you can unlock it's full magical potential."

Kind of a way to limit just how many powerful magic items you can have in use at one time. FantasyCraft does something similar (Reputation limits how many magic items you may have total).

Quote from: Sacrosanct;754878Yes and no.  Unlike MMOs, you can unattune any item you want and do whatever you want with it (give it to someone else, sell it, etc).  It's really just a mechanical way of representing, "by establishing a bond with your magical item, you can unlock it's full magical potential."

Ah, OK. I can see the in-game value of that. You don't just sit down at Heward's Mystical Organ and knock out a reality altering jazz piece. Presumably this is more than learning to use the item since we can "unattune" as well.

Is the metagame intent here to limit the number of powerful magic items a character can actively use, or to prevent hot-potato-ing items from party member to party member?

Quote from: Natty Bodak;754876"Attuned" as in the bind-on-equip MMO concept?  If that's what is meant, then that gives me pause.  IIRC, this was essentially the solution for the tension in an MMO between the desire to not have to camp a spawn 3 weeks in a row to get the drop you wanted and preventing the flooding of those items on the secondary/hand-me-down market.  

Off the top of my head I can't think of how that might be useful in a pen-and-paper game. What have I not thought of?

Attuned in the playtest seemed to mostly be for intelligent items or the high end stuff. In the playtest it was a property that could be applied to an item and the ones listed that I recall were the Defender sword, and Holy Avenger, and I think the Vorpal Sword.
As a Mage player I recall the Staff of Charming and the Wand of Binding needed attuning. The Wand of Magic Missiles did not. A few of the magic rings needed attuning, Ring of Protection for example did, Ring of Wizardry didnt.

Base rules limited you to three of these. Though there was optional rules.

If it doesnt fit your playstyle or campaign then it is easy enough to ignore if it made it into the finished game.

Quote from: Marleycat;754881Kind of a way to limit just how many powerful magic items you can have in use at one time. FantasyCraft does something similar (Reputation limits how many magic items you may have total).

Missed your response in flight there.

I'm skeptical of the value of this, but it seems like it would be super easy to ignore/houserule it out.

Probably easier with an example.  Here is one, a Dwarven Thrower warhammer that gets better if you attune it:

Dwarven Thrower Very rare magic weapon (warhammer)
The sledge atop this warhammer is wrought to resemble a dwarf’s visage, hair streaming out to form the claw at the back. When the weapon is swung, the dwarf’s face moves as if yelling a battle cry. When giants threatened their mountain kingdoms, the dwarves forged these weapons in the deeps and gave them to the greatest warriors of each clan. Dwarven throwers are one reason that dwarves remain in the world. Most dwarven throwers are lost in ancient ruins, interred with the heroes who last wielded them. Dwarves who see someone wielding one of these warhammers, regardless of the wielder’s race, sometimes honor the wielder for having returned a weapon of storied wonder to the light.

Property: You gain a +1 bonus to the attack rolls and the damage rolls you make with this warhammer.

Property [Attuned]: If you are a dwarf, the weapon’s bonus increases from +1 to +3. In addition, this weapon has the thrown property with a range of 25/50 feet. If you hit with an attack made by throwing this weapon, the attack deals 1d8 extra damage, or 2d8 extra damage if the target is a giant.

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As far as un-attuning, the rules are:

Ending a Magic Item’s Attunement: Your attunement to an item ends when you no longer satisfy the item’s attunement prerequisites, when the item has been more than 100 feet away from you for 24 hours, and when you die. You can also voluntarily end your attunement to an item with 10 minutes of uninterrupted concentration.

Quote from: Natty Bodak;754887Missed your response in flight there.

I'm skeptical of the value of this, but it seems like it would be super easy to ignore/houserule it out.

I suppose you could but I like the rule and I like the fact that really power magic items are multilevel if you make the decision to attune it to yourself. I can definitely see experimenting with the actual number limit to fit your game and playstyle though.

I always kind of felt magic items worked pretty well for the first three editions (though 3E got a bit crazy at time with them for my tastes). They were never really something I felt needed any fixing (which is one of the reasons the 4E approach was a let down). For those who have been following the playtesting closely how well does it match the 1E or 2E approach to magic items? How well does it compare to 3E?

Really one of the things I am hoping for with 5E is a return to the old approach to magic.