Quote from: Sacrosanct;754156No it doesn't.  Did you not see my example above between the fighter and mage?

Also:
At-will magic has been around since at least AD&D1e, so it's not a new concept.

Not to mention that the Mage needs a to-hit roll for the Ray and the monster gets a DEX save for the Grasp.

Quote from: CRKrueger;7542422008 called, it wants its dissociated mechanics flamewars back. This is seriously history repeating itself.

I would assume that's got everything to do with 5e moving further down the path of high magic than away from it.

Nice quip though.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;754171Anyone else finding extreme irony in the sort of Cult of the RAW that says that all at wills must be literally unlimited. It just seems so out of place on this forum. Its almost like people are hypocrites.

Well for what its worth. the At Will Ray and Grasp both use up a rounds action. So you are limited in a way. You only get 3 actions in a non-combat exploration turn. So theres a built in limiter of sorts it seems.

Bemusingly endless casting is the very reason given in the playtest!
It states that repeated castings had settled the spell in the casters mind and infused them with the magic needed to produce the spell over and over.

Quote from: Omega;754266Well for what its worth. the At Will Ray and Grasp both use up a rounds action. So you are limited in a way. You only get 3 actions in a non-combat exploration turn. So theres a built in limiter of sorts it seems.

Bemusingly endless casting is the very reason given in the playtest!
It states that repeated castings had settled the spell in the casters mind and infused them with the magic needed to produce the spell over and over.

What's neat though is you can attack and move up to your full movement not in any particular order. Like peek out from behind a rock zap somebody and run over to a tree 30 feet away or whatever. So it's very fluid without the action paralysis of 3/4e with the OA's and immediate action/reaction mess.

Quote from: mcbobbo;754211Does the setting say that wizards are rare?  It implies that even kobolds have shaman and sorcerers, does it not?  Also, magic shops but not magic ice shops was a good point.

Does it give those kobold shamen and sorcerers at-will spells?

Quote from: Larsdangly;754213Check your books, dude!

Check my post, dude.

Quote from: Warthur;754195What crackspawned version of D&D do you use where wizards consistently have the same to-hit chances as fighters?

Quote from: Marleycat;754267What's neat though is you can attack and move up to your full movement not in any particular order. Like peek out from behind a rock zap somebody and run over to a tree 30 feet away or whatever. So it's very fluid without the action paralysis of 3/4e.

I thought you were in favor of AD&D-style spell casting consraints? You can't move and cast a spell in the same round in AD&D.

Quote from: aspiringlich;754241That's not true. Intelligence modifies how many spells the magic-user is able to know, not how many he's able to cast per day.

Which in early editions increased most quickly and effectively if the mage obtained a large sum of money, and in subsequent editions the best way to increase it was to kill shit.

If you analyse the rules on this level they stop making sense. They're abstractions, and it's in the abstract gap between the rules and the game world that you have a huge amount of room for interpretation.

Quote from: aspiringlich;754271I thought you were in favor of AD&D-style spell casting consraints? You can't move and cast a spell in the same round in AD&D.

I don't mind it but we allowed movement in our 2e games just not as much as this, but I do prefer free flowing combat. I just hated OA's and other finicky things like that. Certain spells require concentration meaning you really can't do something else or you only can have one buff spell up at a time. The baseline is a middle ground to be honest that's why you'll love the DMG where all the buttons and levers are quite like FantasyCraft.

The playtest isn't even the actual BASIC version let alone what will be possible with the full version.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;754189I hate to sound cliche, but if people actually played the game, most of these concerns wouldn't even come up because they aren't an issue.

And here I thought most people on this forum were against theorycrafting.

Guess not.

All I can say is that I was in a two-and-a-half year Pathfinder campaign (that went up to level 13) and at-will cantrips were par for the course.

I can't recall a single incident where they were a problem.

Now summoning spells - - those were a problem. As were all the effects that temporarily increased or decreased ability scores - with all the recalculation of secondary features that depended on them. As were the players who announced they were polymorphing into such and such, but never bothered to have the alternate stats and abilities on hand, so we all got to take a break while the DM recalculated everything for them.

And don't even get me started about the clerical necromancer who had his own damned natural history museum following him around like a Shriner's parade, not even counting the litter bearers and feather fan squad.

Cantrips?  -pha-

Quote from: Warthur;754268Does it give those kobold shamen and sorcerers at-will spells?

Yes?  AFAIK, being an NPC doesn't modify class levels.  Now the 'Adept' class doesn't get them - I just looked it up - but 'Sorcerer' still does, as does Cleric, etc.

Here's one pulled from the pfsrd:  http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/unique-monsters/cr-2/troglodyte-shaman

Quote1st--cure light wounds, divine favor, magic weapon(D)
0 (at will)--create water, mending, stabilize
D domain spell; Domains Destruction, War

So in this case I'd ask - do troglodytes tolerate broken equipment in this game world?  If so, why?

Quote from: mcbobbo;754280So in this case I'd ask - do troglodytes tolerate broken equipment in this game world?  If so, why?

Presumably if they do, it's because their gods get pissed if they get used as cosmological superglue.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;754201This whole argument is just the falling damage argument all over again.

Because the rules say I can fall infinitely and never take more than 10d6 damage, if I have over 60 HP I can't die from falling, so I might as well jump off this cliff!

Sorry, that kind of bullshit only works when the DM is an automaton playing out the rules rather than actually being a working force in his campaign.

Quote from: Bionicspacejellyfish;754205I'm pretty sure the 2nd Edition Spelljammer splatbook actually encouraged high levle players to abuse the falling damage rules in order to depart from their ships.

Totally off topic but...

Spelljammer fixed that problem. Sidebars Page 56-60
1d4 heat damage per round once you hit the 20d6 falling damage limit. Heat damage that doubles every turn, so 2d4, 4d4 etc and it overwhelms fire resistance spells and items. Assuming you lived to hit the ground you take the 20d6 damage AND have to make a save vs death or die.

 Falling from orbit to an Earth size body like Oerth or Toril takes 4 turns. Total of 150d4 fire damage. 10d4+20d4+40d4+80d4.
Oh and the sudden stop at the end if you survived re-entry.

I love Spelljammer.

Back on topic.

So a wizard, (or barbarian ahem) can act as a walking refrigerator or dynamo? They arent doing anything else aside from walking.
In context the Geodome airship from Mystarra is stated as taking a total of 3 years of work to fully enchant. The dynamo alone took 6 months to enchant.

If you REALLY are worried some player will abuse the at will then apply the fatigue rules for extending past 8 hours.

Quote from: Bionicspacejellyfish;754256I can't remember if 5e does this, but I remember something that I didn't like with pathfinder is that spellcasters got ALL cantrips at will, which was a bit much.

Playtest had the following.
Bard got 2 cantrips,
Cleric 3
Druids 2
Mage 3
Paladin and Ranger 0

None of those mention getting more than that.

Quote from: Omega;754297Playtest had the following.
Bard got 2 cantrips,
Cleric 3
Druids 2
Mage 3
Paladin and Ranger 0

None of those mention getting more than that.

So let me get this straight people are having a meltdown over THREE 0-level spells? Unless you actually pick them when you level up? Okaaay. I do assume you'll find more as you adventure but really? I do know that Wizards can have all of them at some point but isn't that logical? They're CANTRIPS for God sake! So you get 15-20 of them maybe 4-5 are direct damage types at best useful in fight if you are trapped with no options or a Wizard (Cartemen) duel. Totally on theme to me.