Insider Information on the new Edition of Dungeons & Dragons

Mistwell · May 22, 2014, 09:40:16 PM

Quote from: Skywalker;751781Does the SRD get any bonus points for being 100% of the rules, not just 15%?

You don't get bonus points for doing what you had to do in the process of leaching from the industry leader under their licensing scheme.

Again, Paizo isn't even the people that put that SRD up initially - someone else did (because they could, based on the license rules) and Paizo followed later to try and repaid the damage.

Raven · May 22, 2014, 09:41:49 PM

I don't think chargen out of the box is strictly necessary. In my experience you hook noobs by letting them play, not forcing them to read rules or fumble through chargen. Making that stuff available free online seems like a more than acceptable compromise, especially if losing the extra 50 page booklet is helping to keep the price down.

Shipyard Locked · May 22, 2014, 09:47:12 PM

Quote from: Endless Flight;751783The 4e box was $20 and included tokens and two double sided maps, if my memory serves me correctly. The 5e box is also $20 but has no maps or tokens. Shouldn't there be a price difference or is that just inflation?

Hmm, you're on point, same price, less content. Well, looks like inflation all right. Guess we'll just have to hope that the lighter rule set will mean the two booklets will cover more ground that the 4e ones could.

(I also note that legendary Mentzer only goes to level 3, right? Well this one goes to 5 and has more complex characters overall, so that must count for something in terms of that precious play time.)

GameDaddy · May 22, 2014, 10:04:45 PM

Quote from: Mistwell;751785And we will continue to call you on that. Every. Time. Because it's not gimped, if it's not in the box then it magically doesn't count, even if you already had access to the missing part for free".

Hrmmm? No. That was announced the day after they figured out no one would be buying a starter set without having some character generation included.

Then they pulled a section directly out of their new PHB for that.

Poor planning, followed up with a poor initial press release. I'd call it a sound recovery for 5e though, a recovery from a major oversight. At least now, new players may actually be able to try the whole game.

Endless Flight · May 22, 2014, 10:06:59 PM

Quote from: Mistwell;751788You don't get bonus points for doing what you had to do in the process of leaching from the industry leader under their licensing scheme.

How did Paizo leach? Did they violate the OGL, which was provided freely by Wizards?

1989 · May 22, 2014, 10:09:58 PM

Quote from: Endless Flight;751777Where's the pawns and maps? Even if they don't use 5' movement like 3e/4e, a nice map and pawns to look at and fiddle with would be cool.

I mean, at least the shit 4e box had those.

That would be an automatic no-buy for me.

We want a roleplaying game, not a wargame.

Don't you remember the tagline on the original Red Box?

No game board required because the action takes place in your imagination.

We need to showcase the uniqueness of the RPG, not make it look like another board game where you move pieces around a board.

Iosue · May 22, 2014, 10:11:17 PM

Quote from: GameDaddy;751793Hrmmm? No. That was announced the day after they figured out no one would be buying a starter set without having some character generation included.

Then they pulled a section directly out of their new PHB for that.

Not good planning. Not really good execution. I'd call it a sound recovery for 5e though from an initial major oversight. At least now, new players may actually be able to try the whole game.

Mearls announced that chargen would be available for the Starter Set within hours of the announcement. It literally went, "Starter Set!" "Is there chargen?" "Yes, it will be available."

Then people said, "In the box?" "No, not in the box itself." And people lost their shit because it wouldn't be in the box.

dar · May 22, 2014, 10:14:56 PM

Quote from: Endless Flight;751794How did Paizo leach? Did they violate the OGL, which was provided freely by Wizards?

Did mistwell just call Paizo a bunch of leeches?

RPGPundit · May 22, 2014, 10:17:37 PM

Quote from: Skywalker;751781TBH I am cool that people may be happy with the 5e approach. What I don't understand is how some of these people are trying to pretend that this approach is "in every respect better" than previous approaches.

What we are getting here is simply the same as before. If you were cool with what came before, then you will be cool with this too. If you weren't, then surely its understandable to be non-plussed by what you are seeing.

Again, you still haven't got all the information yet.

Raven · May 22, 2014, 10:19:47 PM

Quote from: 1989;751795No game board required because the action takes place in your imagination.

Quote from: 1989;751795the action takes place in your imagination

Quote from: 1989;751795your imagination

Skywalker · May 22, 2014, 10:21:36 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;751799Again, you still haven't got all the information yet.

Cool. I continue to watch and wait. Good to know that the free character generating PDF doesn't constitute the amazing new approach.

RPGPundit · May 22, 2014, 10:22:15 PM

Quote from: GameDaddy;751793Hrmmm? No. That was announced the day after they figured out no one would be buying a starter set without having some character generation included.

Then they pulled a section directly out of their new PHB for that.

Poor planning, followed up with a poor initial press release. I'd call it a sound recovery for 5e though, a recovery from a major oversight. At least now, new players may actually be able to try the whole game.

Um, no. The plan I'm excited about was conveyed to me in general terms way back around October of last year and was conveyed to me in concrete terms around March.

They're not just making shit up as they go along; what they ARE doing is being pretty fucking goofy at what they choose to reveal and when.

RPGPundit

Endless Flight · May 22, 2014, 10:26:24 PM

Quote from: 1989;751795That would be an automatic no-buy for me.

We want a roleplaying game, not a wargame.

Don't you remember the tagline on the original Red Box?

No game board required because the action takes place in your imagination.

We need to showcase the uniqueness of the RPG, not make it look like another board game where you move pieces around a board.

There's been maps and minis in RPGs since the 70s. I'm not sure why you think they are foreign objects.

Endless Flight · May 22, 2014, 10:27:21 PM

Quote from: dar;751798Did mistwell just call Paizo a bunch of leeches?

That's how I took it. Pretty low blow, really.

robiswrong · May 22, 2014, 10:45:51 PM

Quote from: Warthur;751690It seems evident to me what happened here - Wizards had to stick to a strict budget on the manufacturing and shipping costs of those boxes, and taking out the character gen rules and providing them separately made it possible to do that without compromising on all the other stuff the boxed set needs to do.

If that free PDF is also going to be distributed at game stores (and toy stores) as a free booklet then all's dandy.

I find it far more likely that testing with their primary intended audience for the project showed that character creation rules bogged things down and bored/confused/frustrated new players.