Quote from: BarefootGaijin;751403I have just re-read Pundit's blog post. this stuck out:

 

Emphasis mine.

Now, this has probably been covered in the last 12 or 13 pages or so but my tuppence is as follows:

Originally 5E was being touted as a go-to modular D&D that could be used to emulate play styles of the major previous revisions.

This was then "forgotten about" according to some as play tests were released and mechanics were tested in the wild.

I believe that WoTC is releasing the core D&D 5E mechanic free online and available in participating FLGSs to potential consumers to engage with. If they wish, they can then "buy in" to D&D THE RPG with the starter set.

Alternatively, they can then use what they know from this freebie to make characters and understand how to play in something like D&D THE COMPUTER GAME.

Or, the consumer can use what they learnt from the freebie core mechanic PDF FLGS print out and go and "buy in" to D&D THE BOARD GAME.

[INSERT D&D: THE XYZ] here.

I would bet my place in OGs TBP/RPGSite meat sandwich on it.

I.don't see how they could roll out so many platforms simultaneously but it's intriguing nonetheless.

Quote from: Dodger;751336Someone's spiked your drink, then. With acid.

That's the only way to explain a theory which relies on Wizards deliberately crippling the D&D Starter Set in order to discourage customers from buying through the dominant sales channel (i.e. online).

We already know they are intentionally delivering to game stores 2 weeks earlier than Amazon, for that very reason.

Quote from: Marleycat;751410I.don't see how they could roll out so many platforms simultaneously but it's intriguing nonetheless.

I wouldn't say these things are all hitting the shelves in the same financial quarter. But it covers a lot of the areas, makes it accessible, unifies and at the same time allows for difference in gaming approach. Want a tactical combat? apply the boardgame rules. Want to run through an MMO, dive into D&D Online.

I wouldn't want to say that the characters or stories from each "area" end up as being compatible, but the underlying maths, and structure would be evident therefore smoothing transitions between gaming environments for the consumer.

It'd be a behemoth sized coup if something like that happened.

Call me old-fashioned, but I dislike having to refer to anything that isn't in the print product.  So if there are no physical char-gen rules in the starter set then I'm skipping that.  I'll pick up the PHB, MM, and DMG though.  I just hope they don't go the PHB2/3/4/N and DMG2/3/4/N route (though MM2/3/4/N is great).

Quote from: MonsterSlayer;751321Cool. I'll wear it with pride then.

I'm well aware of the Crawler and it is kind of cool. But that doesn't make phones any more awesome at a table for DCC.

But point blank, I have kids that we hope one day share their mother's and mine enjoyment of RPGs. Yes my hope was that D&D "Next" would have a self contained, streamlined RPG without the use of a tablet/computer/ phone. A self contained starter box would have been perfect.

I'll get more "fogey" too... I was looking at Next because I find DCC a bit too mature for younger audiences.  Other wise I have no use for Next.

But really I hope you are right... about how easy and great this going to be.

I think there's a good chance you will find this a good product for your kids.

RPGPundit

I was dissatisfied with most products for my kids.  Not because they're stupid and the products are hard, but rather because I just wanted to make an RPG for them in particular.

So I did.

It took me about two months to pull all the rules together, find suitable public domain art, write it up, format it, and fix the typos.  36 page player's guide with chargen and 64 page referee's guide with monsters, tables, a whole year of weather reports, 180 monsters, random treasure tables, the whole yadda yadda.  Also, my henchmen work way better than D&D's ever did.

Just finishing up the typos of the referee's guide now, within that same 2-month window.

The point is: Making RPGs based on known quantities is not hard.  An idiot like me can do it in his spare time.  Professional layout and marketing I presume is harder.

At least I presume it is because they're having such trouble with it.

Quote from: BigWeather;751429I just hope they don't go the PHB2/3/4/N and DMG2/3/4/N route (though MM2/3/4/N is great).

Agreed on this one. I like 1 PHB, 1 DMG. And as many quality MM as they can print. I think that is one of the few things that D&D (and now Pathfinder) has had over a lot of other RPGs on the market. tons and tons and tons of ready made things to face.

Quote from: Scott Anderson;751438I was dissatisfied with most products for my kids.  Not because they're stupid and the products are hard, but rather because I just wanted to make an RPG for them in particular.

So I did.

...

The point is: Making RPGs based on known quantities is not hard.  An idiot like me can do it in his spare time.  Professional layout and marketing I presume is harder.

At least I presume it is because they're having such trouble with it.

Umm, your target audience is CONSIDERABLY smaller. You have nothing riding on the outcome (financially). You don't carry the torch for a large widely-recognized brand. Professional layout and marketing IS harder than the 4 month effort you put into polishing your home brew for your kids. Also, making a new edition of D&D is probably harder than say polishing up an existing edition. I don't think they devs went in with the safe notion of "it's basically done, we just need to up the edition number and re-org this mess...".

I give you major kudos for the effort (as in you sir are an awesome dad!), but I don't think it's very genuine to compare your labor of love to what WOTC needs/wants to do with D&D.

Quote from: Benoist;751219I really don't see how you can't have both. It's not an either/or proposition I'm making: it's not either you have the booklet in the box and you can't do those things, or you do those things but somehow can't afford to put the same booklet in the box as well. There's no rationale I can see that justifies crippling the starter set from that standpoint.

Quoting cause I tried to say this at ENWorld without this eloquence.

Quote from: Mistwell;751264THEY. HAND. YOU. A. BOOK. WITH. YOUR. PURCHASE.
THE. BOOK. HAS. CHARGEN. RULES. IN. IT.
THAT'S. IT.

Then why not do what customers seem to be clamoring for and put it in the box.

IT. COULD. JUST. SIMPLY. BE. IN. THE. BOX. AFTER. ALL. EVERYTHING. ELSE. IS.

Quote from: Mistwell;751271I've read.  You sound nuts right now.

There is nothing else you have to do to get the rules you're talking about.  Your objection is totally vacuous at this point.

I, uh, have to object here. You are the one that sounds crazy. You're even desperately posting on several different sites hocking your wierd scheme to make it all sound like it's going to be OK. It might not be OK. In fact it really is sounding like it isn't going to be OK.

I'm not saying I can read your mind, but the above is what it looks like to me.

Quote from: Simlasa;751342Why would they want to drive potential players into brick n mortar stores? There are only a few left around here and the action there is all CCGs and 40K... those store owners aren't looking to have their tables taken up for hours on end by a game that doesn't push impulse buys that can be put to immediate use.
Or maybe WOTC has some new angle on that...

More importantly.

Why would they now be pushing players to FLGS when they went out of their way to ape Games Workshop's ploy of deliberately killing off FLGS wherever they had their own shop up? There is STILL bad blood over that stunt all these years later.

Well they could be planning to glue on another CCG experiment like 4e D&D Gamma World? Or maybee its all just a big ploy to get players in the FLGS where their MTG stuff is where the real sales will be...

Probably not. But WOTC, they'z not the most smartest of companies sometimes ya knowz?

Honestly this sort of move by WOTC is a step in the right direction if it does not have some retarded ulterior motive hidden in there somewhere. It gives some incentive to get out to the FLGS or conventions more one way or another. And to non-FLGS/Con goers its still making the game more accessible.

Wether this plays out as well as we would like to hope remains to be seen.

Quote from: RPGPundit;751364That's is explicitly NOT what is meant here. That much I can say.

This we are gathering slowly. Thanks.

Yes, making a "real" RPG is HARD. But they have lots of money and lots of professionals doing it. Actually, I have no idea whether it's hard or not. The pros are making it look hard though.

And the marketing is still kind of a mess.

Honestly, Pundit says it's good, so I'm not sweating it. I will probably ask Rob over at Rivendell if it's any good, even though he is a Pathfinder kind of a guy and go by his opinion.

And a little personal thought that came up during the recent info.

What if the Adventurer League rules are packed in the box like the other inserts and flyers boxed sets sometimes come with? It is not a part of the game and thusly the game doesnt come with chargen. But see that free AL booklet in there? That adds more stuff.

Probably not. But it would be a move that makes the "no chargen" part true while still having it in there AND advertising Next, and I'll keep calling it Next because its more hassle to type out than 5e, but sounds better. nya!