Quote from: Doom;740495Ouch...quit while you're well behind, man.

Does he ever?  He already admitted he hasn't played AD&D about a year or so ago, so I'm not sure why he insists on going down this road.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;740499Does he ever?  He already admitted he hasn't played AD&D about a year or so ago, so I'm not sure why he insists on going down this road.

I did?

Quote from: Doom;740495Ouch...quit while you're well behind, man.

Nah I'm so far ahead of you, I've got up to you again.

Quote from: Sommerjon;740483Last time I checked, a MU was allowed to memorize whatever spells they want within the scope of the rules.
No need to "make an effort to come to an understanding" with him, stroke his ego, compromise, or any other platitude.
They have an impact on the world without having to resort to "making an effort to come to an understanding".

That's what you got wrong, the way spells are actually described, for instance, which isn't comparable to 3rd/4th editions self-referencing reality-bending rules, and relies on adjudication by the DM at times, and therefore, requires to come to an understanding and maybe to ask questions to know details that may not be readily apparent of any given situation - you know, that really hard work thing called "communication". Hence, you've definitely demonstrated you don't know squat about first edition in actual play.

Example: Fireball. The space occupied by the conflagration is expressed in cubic feet. You might want to ask about the height of the ceiling before you go about shooting your fireball in a 30'x30' room. For instance.

Quote from: Sommerjon;740512I did?

*Edit*  Ok, my mistake.  You said you only broke it out once a year.

Quote from: Benoist;740554You might want to ask about the height of the ceiling before you go about shooting your fireball in a 30'x30' room. For instance.

Yeah, you haven't lived until you've 'accidentally' torched yourself and the rest of your party with your fireball. Good times.

Quote from: Benoist;740554That's what you got wrong, the way spells are actually described, for instance, which isn't comparable to 3rd/4th editions self-referencing reality-bending rules, and relies on adjudication by the DM at times, and therefore, requires to come to an understanding and maybe to ask questions to know details that may not be readily apparent of any given situation - you know, that really hard work thing called "communication". Hence, you've definitely demonstrated you don't know squat about first edition in actual play.

Example: Fireball. The space occupied by the conflagration is expressed in cubic feet. You might want to ask about the height of the ceiling before you go about shooting your fireball in a 30'x30' room. For instance.

If I have to constantly ask the Dm for details that my character is able to deduce, fuck no, I don't call that "communication".

Wasn't my point though.
A MU doesn't have to ask the DM to memorize Magic Missile over Charm Person, if he has it in his spellbook and has the slot he is able to memorize it.
The player has a choice without having to "come to an understanding" with the DM.

The Fighter doesn't have that.  He has to "come to an understanding" with the DM for everything he does in the game.  Whoa be the player who has a DM with very stringent ideas on the Fighter.

Quote from: Sommerjon;740621The Fighter doesn't have that.  He has to "come to an understanding" with the DM for everything he does in the game.

Bullshit, assmunch.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;740620Yeah, you haven't lived until you've 'accidentally' torched yourself and the rest of your party with your fireball. Good times.

Ever have a player that bitched when you told them its not an exact science to place a fireball, and even warned them about back blast?

Some players think its easy to perfectly place that 40' sphere of flame, 100 feet away, only striking enemies in the middle of a hectic battle.


Once I nuked myself and my friends on purpose, but it was either that or the pack of ghouls were going to feast on paralyzed adventurer.

Quote from: Sommerjon;740621If I have to constantly ask the Dm for details that my character is able to deduce, fuck no, I don't call that "communication".

Wasn't my point though.
A MU doesn't have to ask the DM to memorize Magic Missile over Charm Person, if he has it in his spellbook and has the slot he is able to memorize it.
The player has a choice without having to "come to an understanding" with the DM.

The Fighter doesn't have that.  He has to "come to an understanding" with the DM for everything he does in the game.  Whoa be the player who has a DM with very stringent ideas on the Fighter.

You're applying two different standards to each class.  A MU chooses spells like a fighter chooses weapons.  In both cases, no, the DM doesn't need to give permission first.  The only time a fighter has to "come to an understanding" is when they want to do something not clearly defined as a class function/ability.  Surprise, the MU has to do the same thing.

Quote from: Bill;740624Ever have a player that bitched when you told them its not an exact science to place a fireball, and even warned them about back blast?

Some players think its easy to perfectly place that 40' sphere of flame, 100 feet away, only striking enemies in the middle of a hectic battle.


Once I nuked myself and my friends on purpose, but it was either that or the pack of ghouls were going to feast on paralyzed adventurer.

In 5e, you can actually do that.  Well, not every mage, but if you focus as an evoker specialty, you do get a sculpt spells ability which allows to you miss desired targets in an area of effect.

Or more specifically, it's: 1+1 target per level will automatically make their saving throw, and if they save, they suffer no damage.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;740631In 5e, you can actually do that.  Well, not every mage, but if you focus as an evoker specialty, you do get a sculpt spells ability which allows to you miss desired targets in an area of effect.

Or more specifically, it's: 1+1 target per level will automatically make their saving throw, and if they save, they suffer no damage.

That's cool, although I picture Evokers as getting more damage instead of finesse.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;740631In 5e, you can actually do that.  Well, not every mage, but if you focus as an evoker specialty, you do get a sculpt spells ability which allows to you miss desired targets in an area of effect.

Or more specifically, it's: 1+1 target per level will automatically make their saving throw, and if they save, they suffer no damage.

See, I consider that more of a bug than a feature. It was the same thing in 4e, where basically your AOE effects only targeted the red dots on your screen.

I'm not sure I like magic being so scientific, but that is the modern theme of games.

Quote from: Sommerjon;740621If I have to constantly ask the Dm for details that my character is able to deduce, fuck no, I don't call that "communication".

Wasn't my point though.
A MU doesn't have to ask the DM to memorize Magic Missile over Charm Person, if he has it in his spellbook and has the slot he is able to memorize it.
The player has a choice without having to "come to an understanding" with the DM.

The Fighter doesn't have that.  He has to "come to an understanding" with the DM for everything he does in the game.  Whoa be the player who has a DM with very stringent ideas on the Fighter.

Semi related; technically a 1E Cleric does need gm permission to memorize spells above level 2. If I recall correctly. The idea was that a 'good' cleric might not receive 'evil' spells automatically from a good deity. I never felt the need to invoke that myself. You can always explain your evil ways to your god when you die.

Quote from: Doom;740639See, I consider that more of a bug than a feature. It was the same thing in 4e, where basically your AOE effects only targeted the red dots on your screen.

I'm not sure I like magic being so scientific, but that is the modern theme of games.

I think its ok if only one type of wizard has it.