Quote from: Spinachcat;739476I keep wondering why FFG didn't do a basic box for its 40k games.

As soon as it gets abroad, because it's in a box, it's a game and not a book. So there's extra taxes and duties on it, driving the price up - in the UK, for example, that's an extra 20% VAT right away.

That's not even looking at the additional cost of actually distributing it internationally.

Books? Books are cheap and convenient.

Quote from: Spinachcat;739476Link?

I went through an analysis of Amazon sales about a month ago:  Post 132 here: http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=29112&page=14

However, these things do fluctuate quite a bit, and when I went back and checked this morning, the red box doesn't rank nearly as high.  It's still listed above PF Bestiary 2 & 3, Ultimate Combat, Inner Sea Book, the PF Beginner's Box and all of the paperback supplements, but it's well behind the core books.

It's also now behind all the core books for 4e, though it's still ahead of all the Essentials material, including Monster Vault, and most of the 4e splatbooks.

Quote from: Spinachcat;739479Beginner's boxes are for casual gamers. FFG cranks out plenty of thick books for collectors, uh I mean gamers.

I wonder why they didn't try to reach the casual gamer audience, especially since they do so well with short, fun, no commitment board games that casual gamers enjoy.  I doubly wonder since FFG produces huge box games of complex boardgames for the not-hardcore, but not casual either gamer who can sit and play the same game for 4 hours (aka Descent or Android)

FFG did a Starters box for Edge of Empire, and a new one is coming out for Rebel Alliance (or whatever the sequel is called). Previously,they gave away freebie starter rules booklets for the 40k games with sample adventures on RPG Gameday. Android btw comes close to a narrative RPG in a box, as does Mansions of Madness to a lesser degree.

Quote from: Marleycat;739478You ask why? Because I hate boxed sets as do anybody that's not just a casual gamer. Give me ONE self contained book I can put in my backpack already.

I kind of feel the same. I look at the two boxed sets for Dragon Age and think "I have to haul that mess with me? When I can slide a single book of rules into my laptop bag?"

Quote from: Silverlion;739577I kind of feel the same. I look at the two boxed sets for Dragon Age and think "I have to haul that mess with me? When I can slide a single book of rules into my laptop bag?"

While I can appreciate your position, if I were to ever play Pathfinder or DCC as a player, I think I would much rather have player stuff separate from the DM stuff, so I don't have to slide that single book of rules into my bag.

So I think this is where the box sets shine. They are self-contained, full games with at least two books, some dice, and maybe some handouts and maps. The books are separated into the rules the player needs and the dungeon master needs.

Someone correct me if I am wrong; all of the successful basic or casual sets followed this paradigm.

Holmes had the rule book and B1
Moldvay had the rule book and B1 (later B2)
Mentzer had the player's manual and the dungeon master's guide.

But I do appreciate your position. I would have a way for the casual player's to have the rules they need and a single core book that has all the rules for the DM.

I prefer boxes. They are pretty, have extra doodads, and keep extra campaign notes & characters inside nice and tidy. And boxes are like opening a present each time. And boxes spur imagination and sense of security -- just look at children and cats!

That and it probably oppresses others, somewhere out there, because patriarchy. And the spazzing out it induces is always good for a laugh.

Quote from: S'mon;739490Hint: You can take the contents out of the box and put it in your backpack.
That's what I do with the Pathfinder Beginner Box - take all the stuff out, put in my backpack for travel - it's still lighter than one Paizo hardback.

Seems a bit sloppy unless you Ziploc stuff up. But I get your point.

Quote from: Marleycat;739640Seems a bit sloppy unless you Ziploc stuff up. But I get your point.

I put the pawns in a ziploc bag. I don't need to put the GM book, player book and flipmat in one bag, that'd be silly.

Quote from: ggroy;737853For example, in spite of hardcore Star Trek fanatics not accepting the rebooted JJ Abrams version of Star Trek, the reboot films seem to be attracting a large enough "silent majority" audience willing to spend money to watch it.  The same can probably be said about Star Wars, despite the great hate it attracts.  The hardcore detractors don't seem to be having much of an impact, in destroying the franchise and pushing the companies into bankruptcy.

And thank christ for that; because now finally movie companies are realizing that its more profitable to go through the effort of appealing to the mainstream rather than trying to satisfy the absurd obsessive demands of the ultra-fanboys.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Spinachcat;738932If WotC thinks the OSR is a real market, they are going to be most sadly mistaken.

The OSR is a bigger market than its detractors make it out to be, mainly because there's a large number of gamers out there who are OSR gamers without actually knowing of the existence of an "OSR" movement.  

Ignore the historical-obsession, and what you're left with in the OSR is a set of values, of things its adherents like in games.  And these happen to be the things that made original D&D a very likeable game, and its what a great number of RPG gamers, especially the more casual ones that WoTC must absolutely capture as clients, actually want from D&D.

Quick character creation, quick play. Straightforward rules on the player's end. A focus on fun and adventure.  A sense of Immersion.  Emulation of Genre.  A game complex enough to keep interest but not bogged down in minutiae that require considerable inversion of time to master (particularly on the part of players). Fantasy tropes.  Archetypes.  Character Niches. Not obsessing over "balance".  Heroic adventuring.

That's the OSR. And that's what they have to make the game be if its going to be appealing to ex-gamers and casual-gamers and not-yet-gamers.

Quote from: RPGPundit;740213And thank christ for that; because now finally movie companies are realizing that its more profitable to go through the effort of appealing to the mainstream rather than trying to satisfy the absurd obsessive demands of the ultra-fanboys.

Problem is that 'mainstream' movie these days are pretty much all the same. They're big-budget action movies with explosions, bromance, hot chicks, and some sort of geek-hook, and all aimed at 16 to 26 year old males. And all made with an eye to the video-game spinoffs.

Really, is there any difference between the latest Star Trek, the Avengers, or the Hobbit, besides the costumes and the names?

I don't think it's obsessive fanboyism to wish there was room for a movie about science fiction and exploration, or a whimsical tale of dwarves looking for a dragon hoard, without half a dozen mega-kinetic 20-minute action scenes.

Quote from: RPGPundit;740258The OSR is a bigger market than its detractors make it out to be, mainly because there's a large number of gamers out there who are OSR gamers without actually knowing of the existence of an "OSR" movement.  

Ignore the historical-obsession, and what you're left with in the OSR is a set of values, of things its adherents like in games.  And these happen to be the things that made original D&D a very likeable game, and its what a great number of RPG gamers, especially the more casual ones that WoTC must absolutely capture as clients, actually want from D&D.

Quick character creation, quick play. Straightforward rules on the player's end. A focus on fun and adventure.  A sense of Immersion.  Emulation of Genre.  A game complex enough to keep interest but not bogged down in minutiae that require considerable inversion of time to master (particularly on the part of players). Fantasy tropes.  Archetypes.  Character Niches. Not obsessing over "balance".  Heroic adventuring.

That's the OSR. And that's what they have to make the game be if its going to be appealing to ex-gamers and casual-gamers and not-yet-gamers.

Looks to me like Next hits all those notes.

Quote from: Haffrung;740395...or a whimsical tale of dwarves looking for a dragon hoard, without half a dozen mega-kinetic 20-minute action scenes.

I have this forlorn hope that some fan will do the anti-special-edition edit of the trilogy once it's all released, bringing it back down to a single, sane, whimsical movie.