Not if you think outside of the box.

Quote from: Doughdee222;738634I'll concur with Arminius and Jibbajibba.

D&D fighters can seem simplistic and I wish the game offered ways to differentiate and modify them. Making different classes helped but was an incomplete solution. Personally I like point-buy systems such as GURPS and Hero where you can add things such as Combat Reflexes or a bonus dedicated to removing hit location penalties. Just something to make them mechanically different.

Oh, and ice cream, vanilla usually.

not quite my position

I dislike the profileration of classes with unique mechnical options.
I dislike a list of combat moves with mechanical modifiers.
I want a simple mechanic to rule over any combat move I can think up. Now I can make this up on the fly but I think a system like D&D that relies so heavily on combat should devote some space to  discussing how to do that and give a robust central mechanic to handle it.

Quote from: jibbajibba;738635When people say boring they are generally talking about a lack of options not a lack of power. This is mostly about GM style and player engagement.

Get the fighter to think and use tactics in a fight.

When I am a player I usually ask the fighter, if any, in the group what the best plan of attack is? Get them thinking and planning.

As a DM I keep the fighter on their toes. "You see a pair of orcs trying to flank you." - "You notice the giant flicks the tree back just before a swing." - "The patrol routs the cultists are using are familiar. But you can't quite place where." etc.

Of course if the player LIKES just leaping in and swinging away. Fine with me. And bemusingly when playing a fighter thats pretty much me. I love just wading into the fray without having to plot and plan sometimes.

Quote from: Omega;738641Get the fighter to think and use tactics in a fight.

When I am a player I usually ask the fighter, if any, in the group what the best plan of attack is? Get them thinking and planning.

As a DM I keep the fighter on their toes. "You see a pair of orcs trying to flank you." - "You notice the giant flicks the tree back just before a swing." - "The patrol routs the cultists are using are familiar. But you can't quite place where." etc.

Of course if the player LIKES just leaping in and swinging away. Fine with me. And bemusingly when playing a fighter thats pretty much me. I love just wading into the fray without having to plot and plan sometimes.

absolutely which is why I sited Amber.

A possible Amber combat on paper is.
PC: I am first in Warfare so I will kill all three of them
GM: Yeah you easily kill all three of them

When I play its more
PC:" My friends I fear you have stumbled apon a Doom that you can not possible defeat"
Gm: "Says you. But I think the three of us can handle a little girl, don't you boys?" As the biggest of the three say this the other two are moving round to the side trying to flank fro left and right. You can tell from the way they move and handle their weapons that they have had some training.
PC: I slide a knife into my left hand from my sleeve as I step towards the big guy. I am going to let the point of my blade dip off to the left, kind of like a rookie fencer might do.
GM: The big fella smiles. "Come to Rowind!", he cries and he charges forward. its a clumsy charge though and he is actually preventing his collegues from pressing home their flanking advantage
PC: I throw the knife into the throat of the one to my left whilst stepping forward in an arc and dipping beneath Rowind's onrushing charge. Rising I will meet it with my blade in his groin and use his momentum to throw him over my head as I gut him from groin to belly.
GM; The guy to the left lets out a gargle as he falls to his knees. Rowind runs into your blade and you lift him cutting upwards as he rolls over your back and into the dust behind you. There is an awful lot of blood and Rowind is screaming.
PC: rising upwards to my full height and turning to face him I fix the remaining guy with a smile. "So do you want to dance as well friend? Or are you going to tell me where Felix is?"

Man, give me an old-school D&D fighter with an average or better charisma for reaction checks and hirelings and I will run the table.  So no, not only not boring, but to me the most interesting class.

I think it is a fair critique of old D&D that you're placing more faith in your GM to say "yeah, that could work, give me a roll" for things like trips and shield bashes and whatever else.  A bad GM, or just a new and clueless one, may end up saying "uh, there's no rules for that, but you can attack this round."  You can look at the feats or powers of 3rd or 4th edition as basically an attempt to idiot-proof D&D from bad game mastering.  And yes, don't play with idiots, but the fact they're out there is a real issue for the hobby.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;738631Would you mind expanding on this a bit?

Not sure what else there is to say. When playing a fighter, I felt the PC was defined more by what they did than specific mechanical options. The HP and combat capability allowed the PC to survive longer even outside of the PC's specialised area. As said, it feels most to me like playing a hero from the stories of Conan or other pulp action heroes.

Quote from: Skywalker;738661Not sure what else there is to say. When playing a fighter, I felt the PC was defined more by what they did than specific mechanical options. The HP and combat capability allowed the PC to survive longer even outside of the PC's specialised area. As said, it feels most to me like playing a hero from the stories of Conan or other pulp action heroes.

I guess I'm still not following.  You said you didn't like how the 5e fighter was implied to have specialization with a particular weapon, and couldn't just pick up any weapon and kick ass with it.

I'm asking why you feel that way, because the 5e fighter very well can pick up any weapon and kick ass with hit.

er... AD&D fighters started off only knowing 4 different weapons...

6. Depends who the sex is with and whether my wife is out of town.

Quote from: Saplatt;7386806. Depends who the sex is with and whether my wife is out of town.

So mostly ice cream then

Quote from: Sacrosanct;738667I guess I'm still not following.  You said you didn't like how the 5e fighter was implied to have specialization with a particular weapon, and couldn't just pick up any weapon and kick ass with it.

I'm asking why you feel that way, because the 5e fighter very well can pick up any weapon and kick ass with hit.

That's not my experience with 5e. I dont find the added mechanical options and weapon specialisations for the Fighter promote the kind of all round proficency and simplicity that I enjoy for the reasons given.

But I get that you are a big 5e fan, so don't let that get in your way of your own fun. YMMV as always

Quote from: Omega;738671er... AD&D fighters started off only knowing 4 different weapons...

Yeah. That sucked. It's better than 3e and 5e as it mechanically defined the PC less compared to feats and masteries, but I found weapon proficiency often more hassle than its worth.

Quote from: Skywalker;738685That's not my experience with 5e. I dont find the added mechanical options and weapon specialisations for the Fighter promote the kind of all round proficency and simplicity that I enjoy for the reasons given.

But I get that you are a big 5e fan, so don't let that get in your way of your own fun. YMMV as always

I don't think it has anything do to with me being a fan.  What weapon specialties are you referring to?  A fighter applies his prof bonus to pretty much all weapons.  A warrior fighter applies the crit range to all weapons as well.  I think that's what I'm getting caught up on; there aren't really weapon specialization in 5e.  not in the sense of any previous edition at any rate.

I don't have the playtest document on me, but the latest version had mandatory martial styles which show a focus on a type of weapon or fighting style.

If you can't make a Fighter interesting, you probably suck at gaming. Don't even think of playing WFRP or Traveller.