This one has always baffled me, to be honest.

If you want to touch something in battle, do so. I see no reason for an attack roll or a special action or even a special 'Touch' armour class.

All I have ever played with is boffer weapons, but trying to touch someone armed with sword and shield always seemed to me like a good way to die.

Quote from: One Horse Town;734625This one has always baffled me, to be honest.

If you want to touch something in battle, do so. I see no reason for an attack roll or a special action or even a special 'Touch' armour class.

Have you ever tried to touch someone waving 4' of steel at you?

not everyone in battle is waving 4 feet of steel though. How about a touch attack from behind, a suprise touch attack, etc etc .

What about counting coup ---- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counting_coup n-- a lot of native american tribes would actively try to touch their opponent who was waving a spear/tomahawk at them becuase it garnered more prestige becuase it was more dangerous.

However, some attacks miss. Sometime when you play tag/it as a kid you miss there is no automatic success.
A typical training exercise we used to go was one guy tries to touch the opponent, like tag, whist they are trying to hit you. You learn to spend minimum effort blocking, parrying or moving and then touching back, the sparring guy learns not to over extend and leave themselves open.

Quote from: jibbajibba;734638What about counting coup ---- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counting_coup n-- a lot of native american tribes would actively try to touch their opponent who was waving a spear/tomahawk at them becuase it garnered more prestige becuase it was more dangerous.

Excellent evidence for how difficult it is to touch an armed opponent.

Oh, I misread that as "douche attacks" and thought this was going to be a whole different thread.

"Touch Attacks" et. al. need to die horribly and painfully in a fire.  It was one of the things I hated most about Star Wars d20; my Jedi had one defense vs ranged physical weapons, one vs ranged energy weapons, one vs physical melee, one vs energy melee EXCEPT lightsabers, one vs lightsabers, and one vis touch attack.

And they were all fucking different, and were affected differently by various fuffs, skeets, and bills... I mean buffs, feats, and skills.

In 3 years of playing I don't think I ever DID calculate my defenses correctly.

Quote from: Old Geezer;734681Oh, I misread that as "douche attacks" and thought this was going to be a whole different thread.

I have a low defense against douche attacks.

That's why I had to quit posting on RPGnet.

Old Geezer, how did Gary and Dave adjudicate Clerics casting Cause Light Wounds?

Quote from: Piestrio;734632Have you ever tried to touch someone waving 4' of steel at you?

Sure, there are ramifications, but if you really want to touch someone, you should be able to do so IMO.

Quote from: One Horse Town;734625This one has always baffled me, to be honest.

If you want to touch something in battle, do so. I see no reason for an attack roll or a special action or even a special 'Touch' armour class.

Um, because some people (or creatures) might not want to be touched, same way they might not want to be hit with a pointy stick, and should have a chance to avoid having that happen for the same reason.

Quote from: One Horse Town;734625This one has always baffled me, to be honest.

If you want to touch something in battle, do so. I see no reason for an attack roll or a special action or even a special 'Touch' armour class.

I always felt this should have been more of a suggestion but ultimately left open to the GM to decide how to handle based on the specific circumstances. Making it an attack type seemed a bit much, mentioning that not all attacks or attempts against a person are the same, and require judgment may have been a better approach (maybe armor doesnt apply in some cases, maybe no attack roll is needed in others, etc).

I always thought that touching in the real world wasn't so hard but in a world where a touch could kill you (through any number of spells or special attacks) that I would avoid being touched as much as being hit by a sword.

Hence Touch Attacks and touch Ac.

Not that I thought it was a great Mechanic but I see the reason it exist within the context of the game.


Just my thoughts

Quote from: One Horse Town;734625This one has always baffled me, to be honest.

If you want to touch something in battle, do so. I see no reason for an attack roll or a special action or even a special 'Touch' armour class.

I am no expert in the difficulty of 'Counting Coup' but mechanically, I think 3X was trying to be 'realistic' and not have heavy armor prevent a touch the same way it prevents a real damaging strike.

I think it's actually a balancing mechanism - kind of like how in AD&D the Haste spell aged you, or the Stoneskin spell required a bunch of expensive diamond dust as a material component.

Requiring a touch attack adds the necessity of being close to the dangerous thing with claws/sword/face tentacles, and an extra chance for failure.

Quote from: Gizmoduck5000;734862I think it's actually a balancing mechanism - kind of like how in AD&D the Haste spell aged you, or the Stoneskin spell required a bunch of expensive diamond dust as a material component.

Requiring a touch attack adds the necessity of being close to the dangerous thing with claws/sword/face tentacles, and an extra chance for failure.

Well, AD&D did have touch attacks - at least for the Otto's Irresistible Dance spell. More of a suggestion, though

QuoteNote that the creature must be touched - possibly as if melee combat were taking place and the spell caster were striking to do damage.

The thing is, what constitutes a "touch"? Simply touching his armor? (Which is what 3.x does, it has a Touch AC which is just based on dexterity) or enough to make a "hit", which is presumably what is suggested above.

In AD&D, it probably doesn't matter, but in 3.x, ACs can go way, way up (to what, 45?, the equivalent of -25), while MUs attack only goes up to about +10. Which means he's have a hard time ever successfully using it.