Quote from: TristramEvans;727099I like the Warhammer 3rd dice system. Its one of the few meaningful innovations to a basic mechanic Ive seen in RPGs in years. I was hoping theyd streamline it for SW, but everything Ive read indicates they increased the complexity. Oh well.

The mechanics are more streamlined, with many of the unnecessary rules given the chopping block or changed in a meaningful way.

For example, fortune points in Warhammer were given per session per character. In Edge of the Empire, each player rolls the Force Dice to determine the fortune point pool. The players will usually start with a variety of Dark Side and Light Side points in the pool. When a Light Side fortune point is used, a player gets a single Fortune die added to his pool, but the GM gets a Dark Side fortune point. A GM can use Dark Side fortune points to give Misfortune to PCs or Fortune to opposition.

As well, you are rolling a half of the number of dice. Attributes are lower, so dice pools are smaller. As well, instead of adding new dice to your pool for being skilled, the attribute is "upgraded" to a better skill die, such like Reckless and Conversative dice in Warhammer. Speaking of stance dice, Reckless and Conservative dice are gone.

In addition, two characters of equal skill have about a 50/50 chance of success or failure, unlike Warhammer which favours the aggressor.

Fatigue and stress have been compiled to one stat, Strain.

I would argue the only process more complicated is Critical Wounds, which has been translated into a chart instead of a deck of cards. Constantly checking the chart is a little more complicated compared to glancing at your card, but has the advantages of two characters potential receiving the same critical hit.

Action cards have been removed, instead you simply add +1 damage for every success to hit.

Talents are no longer socketed but come in the form of branching trees. You either have the talent or you don't.

The terrible career advancement has been removed into a system that allows the players to buy what they wish, but at a slight xp penalty if it's outside of their profession. Players no longer have to worry about slowing their progression by taking an out of career advance.

An "advanced" Challenge die which represents difficult circumstances or challenging a skilled foe. Unlike Warhammer, which simply adds a Black Fortune die if the character is skilled. As well, the advanced Challenge die replaces a normal Challenge die allowing for less dice to roll.

And one that feels very Star Wars...

Lightsabers are breach 1, which means it ignores 1 point of Starship armor. 1 point of Starship armor translates to 10 points of personal soak. Wearing armor is not a wise defence against Jedi, instead defense (which add Misfortune dice), such as robes or other objects which obscure the form of the attacker are ideal.

Quote from: Crabbyapples;727232An "advanced" Challenge die which represents difficult circumstances or challenging a skilled foe. Unlike Warhammer, which simply adds a Black Fortune die if the character is skilled. As well, the advanced Challenge die replaces a normal Challenge die allowing for less dice to roll.

I liked Gabe of Penny Arcade's term for the red challenge die: the Fuck Orb.

Also, yeah, Lightsabers are really well done in FFG Star Wars. The Breach combined with being 10 base damage (which is pretty high) Crit 1 (number of advantage required to turn a hit into a critical hit), and its vicious 2 (+20 to critical hit table rolls) makes it incredibly frightening in melee combat.

The thing is though, because pretty much no one can learn the skill for it by RAW right now, everyone will be using basic ability die and no upgraded proficiency dice with it, so its not really that great in the hands of anyone but the upcoming Jedi.

Quote from: TristramEvans;727099I like the Warhammer 3rd dice system. Its one of the few meaningful innovations to a basic mechanic Ive seen in RPGs in years. I was hoping theyd streamline it for SW, but everything Ive read indicates they increased the complexity. Oh well.

Just to reiterate what others have said. Essentially, you take the WH40K base rules, add the WFRP 3e dice mechanic, simplify both and you get EotE.

Have "Fate dice" become common enough to avoid this problem, or are they still considered an unusual die type. I see them in pretty much every FLGS, and they're available from lots of online retailers as well.

For the record, I'm not a fan of the Fate system.

Quote from: jeff37923;727218That is only because the d20 system is a lousy one for Star Wars. You should try the d6 WEG system instead.

I have, but less often. I agree it worked better. I haven't played a d6 game with Jedi in it but I understand it runs into similar problems.

Quote from: jcfiala;727067As a side note, they re-themed RoboDerby Express into a pirate-ship game called Pirate Dice - it's a nifty game.

That aside, I think it's just that getting custom dice made is less expensive now, and it's a another way to distinguish your game vs all the others.  It seems to be encouraging the return of boxed sets, if nothing else.

Yep, was picked up as Pirate Dice. I really liked the prototype wooden dice. The later ones are still nice. But dont have that same "feel". I did some early rules glanceovers and suggestions for it.

Custom dice are still costly to do unless you can buy them in bulk. Large publishers can hadle that. But mid ones may have some issues and small publiers may have alot due to smaller print runs. Really depends on the dice and the sorts of deals you can cut.

Debossed dice like Dragon Dice for example are more costly than printed dice like Mice & Mystics or HeroScape due to one needing custom molds, essentially making it a mini.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;726945I dislike proprietary dice like the ones used in the currently hot Star Wars: Edges of the Empire.

Why have they re-emerged at this time in the hobby's history?

FFG reps have said in interviews that their board games deliberately use more and more complicated fiddly bits than are strictly necessary for the design (for instance, counting life point with individual cardboard hearts rather than a single heart slider on a track on a play board) because they are catering to a customer base that likes and wants lots of unique fiddly bits.

This jibes with my experience with boardgames, that a significant number of players enjoy the tactile experience of manipulating small unique components.

I suspect some of that is going on here.

Quote from: daniel_ream;727367FFG reps have said in interviews that their board games deliberately use more and more complicated fiddly bits than are strictly necessary for the design (for instance, counting life point with individual cardboard hearts rather than a single heart slider on a track on a play board) because they are catering to a customer base that likes and wants lots of unique fiddly bits.

This jibes with my experience with boardgames, that a significant number of players enjoy the tactile experience of manipulating small unique components.

I suspect some of that is going on here.

FFG's games are also more costly for having all the extra glitze.

The eternal balancing act of more glitze vs more cost. Theres a cut-off point where players baulk. Figuring out where that is for any given game is the trick.

Custom dice is probably one of the simplest of add-ons.

Quote from: artikid;727032What jeff37923 said.

ditto.

Hate EoE. Not touching it again.

I really like the dice Edge of the Empire uses, but strangely enough I'm not a fan of the dice that Dungeon Crawl Classics uses.

Different dice do different things.  Having symbols that correspond to the things you want them to represent can be easier than other ways of potentially creating that.

In my Warhammer 40k set, there were Jam Dice.  They showed 1, 2, or 3 hits, along with a jam result.  Since there were 4 results divided over 6 faces, some results were repeated.  It is easier to have a die that tells you exactly what you need rather than remembering 1=Jam, 2-3=1, 4-5=2,6=3.  If you're willing to do the extra work, you can substitute a standard d6, but it is easier to read the dice 'as is'.  And if you're rolling multiple dice together, it helps make it clearer which die represents which facet of the roll.

Another warhammer die that I've used extensively with other RPGs is the 'direction' die.  When someone goes off course, this die has arrows that graphically show which direction someone goes.  It puts that information on a 6 sided die and because the face can land at any angle, it creates a 360 degree spread of results; even a d12 for direction (corresponding to clock face directions) isn't quite as variable.  

Adding 'proprietary' dice for no reason isn't very helpful.  If 'tree' = 1, I'd rather just have a die that has a 1 on it.

Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;727344Have "Fate dice" become common enough to avoid this problem, or are they still considered an unusual die type. I see them in pretty much every FLGS, and they're available from lots of online retailers as well.

For the record, I'm not a fan of the Fate system.

Fate/Fudge dice have been around for, I think, over 20 years now.  They're not exactly new, they're just more popular then they used to be.  I remember... a while ago I agreed to run a bunch of demos for Grey Ghost Games (the official FUDGE standard-holder) at a convention, partially so I'd get some neat books, but mostly because I'd get a bunch of the dice.  (Which, to be fair, I continued to use for FUDGE games until my convention gaming was disrupted by parenthood.)

That being said, I think the FUDGE dice are still somewhat unusual at this point, but pretty soon will no longer be.

I hated the idea of non-standard dice for the new Star Wars game.

Then I read the book and rolled the dice and had a change of heart.

The custom dice really work and aren't bad at all. The system is unique and adds a different flavor that can't be done with normal dice (without constant table look up).

So as cliche as it sounds, if you haven't tried it yet, consider reserving your opinion until you give it a fair shake (and roll!).

Quote from: Emperor Norton;726958I like the Edge of the Empire dice system because it wraps up ability, difficulty, and circumstance all into one dice pool with no target numbers with 2 numerical axes (Success/Failure, Advantage/Threat) and two possible switches (Triumph, Despair)

It packs a ton of information into one roll. Could it be done with standard dice? Probably, but it would be a lot more complicated and probably need lookup tables.

Yeppers.
I was tickled by the amount of information packed into those dice.

Quote from: GoOrange;727471I hated the idea of non-standard dice for the new Star Wars game.

Then I read the book and rolled the dice and had a change of heart.

The custom dice really work and aren't bad at all. The system is unique and adds a different flavor that can't be done with normal dice (without constant table look up).

So as cliche as it sounds, if you haven't tried it yet, consider reserving your opinion until you give it a fair shake (and roll!).

I tend to follow that cliche and try things before judging them. After trying the gimmick dice and the results, I found they added nothing to the enjoyment of the game except for an added complication that the GM had to come up with on the fly.

I just don't like the gimmick dice.