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What system handles gun combat best?

Started by Shipyard Locked, January 16, 2014, 03:43:36 PM

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dragoner

#105
January 18, 2014, 08:38:20 PM
Quote from: CRKrueger;724675Google will return some recent studies from gunned down pigs that shows organ and brain damage away from the wound.

I've only shot pigs with a 30-30 or 30-06, which is outside the range of pistols; I've seen a pig shot in the head with a nine though and it only got mad. But the report does talk about various studies, and their flaws.
The most beautiful peonies I ever saw ... were grown in almost pure cat excrement.
-Vonnegut

Brander

#106
January 18, 2014, 09:22:35 PM
Quote from: CRKrueger;724675Google will return some recent studies from gunned down pigs that shows organ and brain damage away from the wound.  

Everything I've read suggest the brain/head is the one place hydrostatic shock MIGHT be relevant because of the skull acting as a solid closed container, but that appears to possibly be only relevant from rather high powered rifles.

That said, I grew up on a farm, killed (usually by a .22 to the head) and butchered animals (hogs and cattle) there, plus hunted (mostly shotgun slug and buckshot admittedly) and cleaned game.  I've NEVER seen an injury outside the wound channel.  Anecdote admittedly, but it's another reason why I tend to fall into the "hydrostatic shock is essentially irrelevant for wounding with small arms" category.
Insert Witty Commentary and/or Quote Here

crkrueger

#107
January 18, 2014, 10:04:31 PM
Quote from: dragoner;724681But the report does talk about various studies, and their flaws.
Neurological evidence that suggests otherwise is more recent.  Again, I'm not talking about lethal damage, just that the idea itself is probably correct, if exaggerated.

Quote from: Brander;724686I tend to fall into the "hydrostatic shock is essentially irrelevant for wounding with small arms" category.
Probably irrelevant to severe or lethal wounding, unconsciousness or shock though is another story.

I'm not saying an RPG should have some kind of "save or lose int" mechanic, but systems that make larger, faster rounds easier to inflict shock, stun or unconsciousness aren't fairy-science.
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

dragoner

#108
January 18, 2014, 10:19:26 PM
Quote from: CRKrueger;724689Neurological evidence that suggests otherwise is more recent.  Again, I'm not talking about lethal damage, just that the idea itself is probably correct, if exaggerated.

But it sounds like you are talking about rifle rounds, not pistols; what I am talking about are pistols, and that is what the study is about. Granted, heavier weapons will have more dire effects, to the point that the M2HB I manned on my turret was "illegal" to be considered an anti-personnel weapon due to it's extreme effect.
The most beautiful peonies I ever saw ... were grown in almost pure cat excrement.
-Vonnegut

The Traveller

#109
January 18, 2014, 10:21:56 PM
At this point I'm ready to summarily write off whatever a traveller fanboi has to say about technology, realism, physics or science.
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.

dragoner

#110
January 18, 2014, 10:33:43 PM
Don't mean nothing.
The most beautiful peonies I ever saw ... were grown in almost pure cat excrement.
-Vonnegut

jeff37923

#111
January 18, 2014, 10:34:53 PM
Quote from: The Traveller;724692At this point I'm ready to summarily write off whatever a traveller fanboi has to say about technology, realism, physics or science.

:rolleyes:
"Meh."

jeff37923

#112
January 18, 2014, 10:36:00 PM
Quote from: dragoner;724697Don't mean nothing.

But its good for a laugh.
"Meh."

dragoner

#113
January 18, 2014, 10:37:39 PM
Quote from: jeff37923;724700But its good for a laugh.

But he's crying. :rotfl:
The most beautiful peonies I ever saw ... were grown in almost pure cat excrement.
-Vonnegut

The Traveller

#114
January 18, 2014, 10:41:18 PM
Quote from: dragoner;724697Don't mean nothing.
/ shakes head, buries it in palms
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.

Philotomy Jurament

#115
January 18, 2014, 10:47:50 PM
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;724514As a sourcebook, Morrow Project is cool to have though for play in other systems.
Yeah, I agree.  MP was a cool setting, and had a lot of cool ideas and bits in it.  I remember having a lot of fun with a road atlas book, figuring out where nuclear strikes had come in (including the kind of warhead and everything), and then using that as the basis for my campaign map.
The problem is not that power corrupts, but that the corruptible are irresistibly drawn to the pursuit of power. Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.

The Traveller

#116
January 18, 2014, 10:48:25 PM
Are any of the braintrust familiar with the concept of a double negative by any chance.
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.

Philotomy Jurament

#117
January 18, 2014, 10:54:27 PM
Quote from: The Traveller;724707Are any of the braintrust familiar with the concept of a double negative by any chance.
Proof positive!
The problem is not that power corrupts, but that the corruptible are irresistibly drawn to the pursuit of power. Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.

The Traveller

#118
January 18, 2014, 10:58:24 PM
Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;724709Proof positive!
That's right!
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.

jeff37923

#119
January 18, 2014, 11:21:39 PM
Quote from: The Traveller;724711That's right!

Oh, come on, you aren't stupid. You are just uneducated. :D
"Meh."
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