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Legitimate Issues With Old-School Mortality?

Started by RPGPundit, October 14, 2013, 04:59:31 PM

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flyingcircus

#240
October 17, 2013, 01:25:13 PM
Quote from: Archangel Fascist;699325Videogames let you save and reload.

This is why I have been an advocate of a perma death in MMO's, you only live once, you screw up and get yourself killed, too fuckin' bad, make a new toon and start over just like in life.
Current Games I Am GMing:  HarnMaster (HarnWorld)
Games I am Playing In None.

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"The multitude of books is making us ignorant" - Voltaire.
"Love truth, pardon error" - Voltaire.
"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" - Voltaire.

Exploderwizard

#241
October 17, 2013, 01:32:46 PM
Quote from: flyingcircus;700638This is why I have been an advocate of a perma death in MMO's, you only live once, you screw up and get yourself killed, too fuckin' bad, make a new toon and start over just like in life.

:jaw-dropping:

You mean if I happen to get hit by a bus today I can just re-roll?
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

flyingcircus

#242
October 17, 2013, 01:55:06 PM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;700641:jaw-dropping:

You mean if I happen to get hit by a bus today I can just re-roll?

Sure WTF not! As long as you survive, make sure you roll good...:rotfl:
Current Games I Am GMing:  HarnMaster (HarnWorld)
Games I am Playing In None.

RPGNet the place Fascists hangout and live.
"The multitude of books is making us ignorant" - Voltaire.
"Love truth, pardon error" - Voltaire.
"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" - Voltaire.

The Were-Grognard

#243
October 17, 2013, 02:19:29 PM
I have to say, the success of a certain show has made Old School D&D easier to explain to new players.  I tell them to think of D&D, not as WoW, Skyrim, or their favorite fantasy novel/movie, but more as Game of Thrones, where no character has plot protection and can seemingly die at any time.  In addition, the characters that do survive (to 9th level) can then play the eponymous Game of Thrones with their very own domains.

Imperator

#244
October 17, 2013, 02:20:24 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit;699303Can we acknowledge that for some gamers, the (fairly common) old-school game experience of having to go through several abortive characters who die-off at low level (before managing to get to a character that survives long enough to have a decent chance of hitting higher levels) is a turn off without just being a matter of them being whining little pussies?
I agree. It's 100% OK not to like that. It is OK to like it, too.

QuoteHow would you constructively approach this issue, if you have a gamer (whether it be a newbie, or someone who has been "brought up" with more new-school RPGs where there is much greater low-level survival odds) in your group who is experiencing a problem of disenchantment with your game on account of characters he really likes dying off prematurely?  What would you say or do to try to deal with the issue? Or is it just "them's the breaks, kid"?

RPGPundit
I explain before the chargen how the game works (or seem to work) as thoroughly as possible, including lethality. Everyone needs to have realistic expectations.

For example, my Aquelarre game will be very different from the Star Wars game, and that is something I insisted upon.

Quote from: Spinachcat;699480I don't play MongTrav or MongRQ, but are the mortality rates significantly less than original Traveller and original RuneQuest?
Nope, they're more or less the same.
My name is Ramón Nogueras. Running now Vampire: the Masquerade (Giovanni Chronicles IV for just 3 players), and itching to resume my Call of Cthulhu campaign (The Sense of the Sleight-of-Hand Man).

Sacrificial Lamb

#245
October 17, 2013, 05:20:54 PM
Quote from: Marleycat;700463O

That is something 3/4e got wrong. Potion mishaps and wizard killing cats.

Cats can still mangle wizards in 3.x.

Archangel Fascist

#246
October 17, 2013, 05:38:22 PM
Feline wizard-slayers were an example of what 3e did wrong: assuming everything needed a combat block.  It's a fuckin' cat.  It doesn't need to make attack rolls.

Omega

#247
October 17, 2013, 05:56:41 PM Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 06:28:15 PM by Omega
Quote from: Marleycat;700539Pretty sure 4e Wizards were d6. Can't confirm it though I traded my 4e books away 2-3 years ago. Question do you gain hit dice every level like 3;4e or is it capped like 1/2e?

ooooh. I totally misread how Next HP works...

You have a set amount of HP. And your Hit Dice are used for rest recovery?
Mage starts off with 6 HP + CON modifiers. Gains 1d6 (or 4) + CON modifier per level thereafter.
The (or 4) is the HP max limit addition. So at level 5 the mage cannot have more than 22 hp (+ con mod). 6 + whatever they rolled each level (+ con mods). anything over the HP cap is discarded.
Uses 1d6 HD equal to level for resting. IE: You roll 5d6 HD at level 5 and recover that much HP during a rest.

It took a few readings to puzzle that out.
That is awfully convoluted at first glance but simple once you get the hang of it. That is one step more math for what gain? Balance?

Omega

#248
October 17, 2013, 06:03:13 PM
Quote from: Archangel Fascist;700704Feline wizard-slayers were an example of what 3e did wrong: assuming everything needed a combat block.  It's a fuckin' cat.  It doesn't need to make attack rolls.

My cat didnt.
You'd be sitting there petting her and WHAMMO! shed go into an epileptic fit and lock bite down on the first thing availible with appalling force. I've still got the scar where she penetrated to the bone.

Oh, and she could leap 5ft straight up from a standing position and so a back flip in mid air...

Vorpal Seizure Kitty.

Omega

#249
October 17, 2013, 06:20:27 PM
Quote from: Phillip;700520If fire balls and lightning bolts are still d6 per level, that makes them more "save or die" than "just die."

Fireball does 6d6 damage. DEX save to take half.
Blowing a higher level slot adds 1d6 per spell level slot above 3. So you can blow a level 6 slot and cast a 9d6 fireball.

Caster level is no longer a factor.

Lightning bolt works the exact same.

So you can get fireball at level 5 (Assuming you can find it and add it to your spellbook) and cast it like a level 6 AD&D MU. BUT the fireball never really advances. You cannot cast a 7d fireball untill level 7, 8 till level 9, 9 till level 11, 10 till level 13, etc.

But yeebus you can fling fireballs left and right now. That level 11 mage can chuck nine 9d6 fireballs as fast as he or she can cast them.

Elfdart

#250
October 17, 2013, 11:10:23 PM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;700641:jaw-dropping:

You mean if I happen to get hit by a bus today I can just re-roll?

Next time you jump in front of a bus, you can tell us for sure.
Jesus Fucking Christ, is this guy honestly that goddamned stupid? He can\'t understand the plot of a Star Wars film? We\'re not talking about "Rashomon" here, for fuck\'s sake. The plot is as linear as they come. If anything, the film tries too hard to fill in all the gaps. This guy must be a flaming retard.  --Mike Wong on Red Letter Moron\'s review of The Phantom Menace

Bloody Stupid Johnson

#251
October 18, 2013, 12:34:02 AM
Quote from: Omega;700513Interesting note as I read through the D&DNext playtest pack. Mages now use a d6 for HP. MUs/Wizards are called Mages now...

Did 3 or 4e have that? I dont recall it. But been a while and my friends 3e books are not availible till morning.

3.0: d4. (you can get a toad for +2 Con :) )
3.5: d4 (you can still get a toad but its a fixed +3 HP ).
Pathfinder: d6. You also get +1 per level if Wizard is your favoured class.
4E: Con score + some bonus. Googled it and seems to be CON score (not modifier, full score) +10, +3 per level advanced. (so average 20-ish HP at L1).

Arduin

#252
October 18, 2013, 12:36:17 AM
Dying is a lot like living.  The more you do it, the more you get used to the idea...

jibbajibba

#253
October 18, 2013, 02:22:59 AM
Quote from: Omega;700715Fireball does 6d6 damage. DEX save to take half.
Blowing a higher level slot adds 1d6 per spell level slot above 3. So you can blow a level 6 slot and cast a 9d6 fireball.

Caster level is no longer a factor.

Lightning bolt works the exact same.

So you can get fireball at level 5 (Assuming you can find it and add it to your spellbook) and cast it like a level 6 AD&D MU. BUT the fireball never really advances. You cannot cast a 7d fireball untill level 7, 8 till level 9, 9 till level 11, 10 till level 13, etc.

But yeebus you can fling fireballs left and right now. That level 11 mage can chuck nine 9d6 fireballs as fast as he or she can cast them.

Last bit is confusing.....

11th level mage has so many spell slots say a:b:c:d:e:f:g  (of levels 1:2:3:4:5:6) now I would assume that they get 0 6th elvel spells as traditionally you get them at 12 the level .

Are you saying that an 11th level mage has 9 3rd level spells + 9 sixth level spells they can discard to pump the fireball to 9d6  ???? seems incorrect based on your previous description.

I like fireball not growing it was crazy that a 3rd level spell could be more powerful than a 7th level spell if cast by the same 20th level caster.
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Omega

#254
October 18, 2013, 02:46:37 AM Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 02:51:49 AM by Omega
Quote from: jibbajibba;700821Last bit is confusing.....

11th level mage has so many spell slots say a:b:c:d:e:f:g  (of levels 1:2:3:4:5:6) now I would assume that they get 0 6th elvel spells as traditionally you get them at 12 the level .

Are you saying that an 11th level mage has 9 3rd level spells + 9 sixth level spells they can discard to pump the fireball to 9d6  ???? seems incorrect based on your previous description.

I like fireball not growing it was crazy that a 3rd level spell could be more powerful than a 7th level spell if cast by the same 20th level caster.

ook, I goofed math totally at a point. Thats 1 9die fireball, 2 8die fireballs, 3 7die fireballs and 3 6die fireballs. Or lightning. Oh and youd have say 7 magic missile castings on top of that.

That is still quite a bit of oomph. Yes it sacrifices other potential spells/slots to do that. But you CAN do that.
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