Quote from: The Traveller;695049So if two players really got honked off at one another, they could keep escalating to and fro with fate points until the one with the fewest points loses, or is it a one off?

In Fate Core, I could just concede, decide how I'm taken out, rack up a bunch of Fate Points for the Concession and hoard them for our next encounter.

FWIW, I have seen Fate played without any sense of jeopardy or risk of failure. It makes for a boring Fate game. Don't play that way.

Quote from: Rivetgeek;695194Except compels aren't a disadvantage taking effect. They are the aspect being given front and center focus in a not-necessarily-good fashion. There's a huge difference. Plus in Fate Core, in particular, compels aren't the subject of die rolls or modifiers - they just happen.

It is a distinction without significance. Nor do the majority of GURPS disadvantages involve  die rolls or modifiers. The point of a compel and a GURPS disadvantage that it represent a limitation on the character that comes out in the roleplaying. For example an aspect of 'Honest to a Fault' very similar to the GURPS Honesty disad. Except the expectation in Fate that 'Honest to a fault' would be an advantage in certain situation.

Quote from: Rivetgeek;695194An example is a character that has the aspect Knight of the Round Table. That's not a self-imposed disadvantage - but it's very easily compelled.

You haven't played much GURPS then. A Knight of the Round Table would be represented Duty (disad), Vow (Disad), Reputation (advan), Social Status (advan), and possibly Rank (advan)

My impression and experience with Aspects is that they play out as a package of GURPS disadvantages and advantages.

Quote from: Rivetgeek;695194Compel: "Because you are a Knight of the Round Table, it makes sense that you can't remain anonymous in the tavern and someone recognizes you. Damn your luck."

GURPS Reputation advantage that Knight of the Round table PC would be required to take. On thing that Fate Aspect handles better than GURPS disads or advantage/ Fudges Gifts and Flaws, is ambiguous nature of the background elements of a character.

Quote from: Rivetgeek;695194Compel: "Because you are a Knight of the Round Table, it makes sense that you would stop to stop some brigands from robbing that noblewoman and be late for your audience with the king. Damn your luck."

Which would be covered in the Vow disadvantage of a Knight of the Round Table.

Quote from: Noclue;695203To be fair, that's really the GM's job. Players can definitely propose self compels, but if they didn't have any opportunity to earn FP that's all on the GM.

Yes but you miss the point of what I was saying. That Fate Aspect work best over the course of a campaign.

For a one shot it doesn't work as well unless

1) Craft the characters to the scenario. In essence create pre-gens.
2) Twist things artificially into a improbable circumstance to allow a aspect to play.

This in contrast to classic D&D where just about anything can be rolled is usable with a given scenario.

Quote from: estar;695216Yes but you miss the point of what I was saying. That Fate Aspect work best over the course of a campaign.

If I may restate:

A FATE character has a bundle of Aspects, but the likelihood is that only one or two will apply to the circumstances in any given session.

Hence, if you're playing a 1-shot, half the Aspects will be irrelevant.

The best use of Aspects is in a continuing campaign, because then there are far more opportunities for Aspects to be applicable.

Ah, yes, if you're creating a one shot, it's definitely best to create characters with aspects that are likely to be relevant. In the case of your game, allowing Rufus to have Ladies Man if you knew the players were going to be spending 90% of their time in the wilderness or in a dungeon might have been problematic. Of course, changing your adventure so the coven of warlocks were led by a sorceress, might have fixed that particular problem. The point being, the more you tie character aspects to the "adventure" and vice versa the better,

Some grist for the mill...

The first time I ran Spirit of the Century it was a one shot set in Middle Earth. Here's the thread where I talk about it, specifically some of the things that I was working still to get a handle on.

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?316159-SotC-Ran-Middle-Earth-today


Here's the resulting actual play:

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?316355-SotC-Middle-Earth-A-Search-for-Hope

Quote from: BarefootGaijin;694091Diaspora 'seems' to be a Fate-based attempt at Traveller. It is difficult to produce a space-based game without standing in the long shadow cast by the Traveller system. But the notion that player agency and co-authorship of the narrative provide a compelling roleplay experience has again failed.

You know, you could have saved yourself a lot of trouble if you would have just played Traveller instead.

Quote from: Noclue;695265Of course, changing your adventure so the coven of warlocks were led by a sorceress, might have fixed that particular problem. The point being, the more you tie character aspects to the "adventure" and vice versa the better,

As it so happened the coven was lead by a sorceress. But that doesn't change the issues Fate is weak if you allow players to make characters for a one-shot adventure.

Quote from: Noclue;695265Ah, yes, if you're creating a one shot, it's definitely best to create characters with aspects that are likely to be relevant.

Then you take on the issues with pre-gen characters.

For one-shot adventures you have the choice of pre-gen or created characters. Both approaches have advantages, both have disadvantages. In my opinion Fate is weak for running one-shot adventure with created characters. It not a flaw in the game. There are a bunch of RPG systems that are similarly not suited.

Quote from: estar;695296.
For one-shot adventures you have the choice of pre-gen or created characters. Both approaches have advantages, both have disadvantages. In my opinion Fate is weak for running one-shot adventure with created characters. It not a flaw in the game. There are a bunch of RPG systems that are similarly not suited.

I agree. If you're going to prepare a one shot without player input, you'd best also prepare the characters so that they mesh well with it. You can leave some openings for customization, but everyone I know who one-shots Fate at conventions comes with characters.

Quote from: estar;695212It is a distinction without significance. Nor do the majority of GURPS disadvantages involve  die rolls or modifiers. The point of a compel and a GURPS disadvantage that it represent a limitation on the character that comes out in the roleplaying. For example an aspect of 'Honest to a Fault' very similar to the GURPS Honesty disad. Except the expectation in Fate that 'Honest to a fault' would be an advantage in certain situation.

The point was that "advantages" and "disadvantages" in the context of, say, GURPS (which I've played quite a bit of, thankyouverymuch) are not exactly what aspects represent in Fate - or, at least, aspects encompass some of the same things, but step outside of those boundaries quite a bit.

Quote from: Rivetgeek;695306The point was that "advantages" and "disadvantages" in the context of, say, GURPS (which I've played quite a bit of, thankyouverymuch) are not exactly what aspects represent in Fate - or, at least, aspects encompass some of the same things, but step outside of those boundaries quite a bit.

I once had a discussion comparing GURPS disads and Fate aspects on reddit. Things broke down when she asked about Disney's Aladdin and I did a quick Fate-ization of it to point out how Aspects are different from GURPS ads and disads:

QuoteHigh Concept: Clever little street rat. Trouble: Smitten with the Princess. Other Aspects: "Diamond in the Rough" "Stop that, Abu!" "An honorable thief"

So, Aladdin's in the marketplace after meeting Jasmine and the GM compels his Honorable Thief aspect, which gets him captured by Jafar. Later, while he's going after the lamp, a compel on "Stop that, Abu!" causes all sorts of mayhem from Abu's trying to steal from the cave. Then the GM compels Aladdin's Smitten With the Princess aspect informing him that Jafar has a fiendish plot to gain her hand in marriage unless Aladdin does something. Being a Clever little Street Rat, Aladdin dresses up like Prince Ali, but the GM compels his Diamond in the Rough and Jasmin, not recognizing the pompous Ali as her roguish love, spurns him.

Quote from: jeff37923;695284You know, you could have saved yourself a lot of trouble if you would have just played Traveller instead.

I tried that. Spirit of the Far Future (Diaspora) saved the game.

Quote from: Rivetgeek;695306The point was that "advantages" and "disadvantages" in the context of, say, GURPS (which I've played quite a bit of, thankyouverymuch) are not exactly what aspects represent in Fate - or, at least, aspects encompass some of the same things, but step outside of those boundaries quite a bit.

Individually yes, but Advantage and Disadvantage in GURPS  can and do come as a consistent package to represent something in-game. Like the Knight of the Round Table template in GURPS Camelot.

While Fate Aspects could represent a individual GURPS Advantage or Disadvantage say Honesty. Most times they are more of a package deal. Some part of a Aspect is an Advantage and some are Disadvantages.

Quote from: Noclue;695313I once had a discussion comparing GURPS disads and Fate aspects on reddit. Things broke down when she asked about Disney's Aladdin and I did a quick Fate-ization of it to point out how Aspects are different from GURPS ads and disads:

QuoteHigh Concept: Clever little street rat.

This would be a template and come with a list of skill option, advantages and disadvantages.

QuoteTrouble: Smitten with the Princess.

This would be a disadvantage probably taken as one of the optional disads that template leave room for. If it was from a Arabian Nights supplement probably it would be a explicit option as it is a common trope of the genre.

Quote"Diamond in the Rough"
"Stop that, Abu!"
"An honorable thief"

All these can be handled by either quirks or a combination of advantages and disadvantages.

QuoteSo, Aladdin's in the marketplace after meeting Jasmine and the GM compels his Honorable Thief aspect, which gets him captured by Jafar.

In GURPS this would result from the player roleplaying his Code of Honor.

QuoteLater, while he's going after the lamp, a compel on "Stop that, Abu!" causes all sorts of mayhem from Abu's trying to steal from the cave.

Abu would be a Ally of Aladdin but Allies are built like character and would have their own disadvantages. Abu probably has an Odious Personal Habit of Always getting into things he shouldn't."

QuoteThen the GM compels Aladdin's Smitten With the Princess aspect informing him that Jafar has a fiendish plot to gain her hand in marriage unless Aladdin does something.

Again because the player roleplaying of his infatuation with the Princess would cause his character to take up the challenge of defeating Jafar's plot.

QuoteBeing a Clever little Street Rat, Aladdin dresses up like Prince Ali,

The Street Rat package obviously comes with a disguise ability and the fact that the player considers his character a Diamond in the Rough probably meant that he some type of savior faire that not normal to one of his social status.

Quotebut the GM compels his Diamond in the Rough and Jasmin, not recognizing the pompous Ali as her roguish love, spurns him.

In GURPS this is a result of Jasime's disadvantage not of Aladdins. Which would be consistent because, if I remember how the movie went, she was spurning all the princely suitors her father was presenting to her.

The strength of Fate in this regard would be the fact that unlike GURPS the player just needs to write down five sentences. While in GURPS it requires coming with the details of the five character concepts.

The only wonky thing about the Fate example is that the characters Diamond in the Rough is compelled to make Jasmine spurn him. Jasmine spurning Aladdin as Ali is a function of her own Aspects and the unknowing result of the player deciding to disguise himself as Prince Ali.

In fact the referee would come off as a bit of a dick to the player. The player comes up with a supposedly good plan and the referee whips up on the spot something that thwarts the it. The player would rightfully react negatively to the arbitrary decision of the referee.

On the other hand if the referee did define Jasmine this way before the game, then this could be looked on as the player getting a reward anyway despite the in-game failure of his plan. To me this would be in the spirit of Fate as you are supposed to get Fate points for when your Aspects turn out to be disadvantages.

Quote from: Eisenmann;695331I tried that. Spirit of the Far Future (Diaspora) saved the game.

Which version of Traveller did you use and how did it fail?