Quote from: gamerGoyf;689364So you assume that the GM must always have your harebrained schemes succeed. That's some pretty hefty player entitlement you have there. Remind me to never run a game for you.

Talk about excluded middles. Dude, you are really bad at this. Seriously. You are making yourself look like a complete tool. Calm down and try to engage in actual conversations with people.

Quote from: J Arcane;689354Isn't it weird how many schools of bad RPG theory share a fundamental distrust and even hatred of the DM?

It's also weird how all new schools of RPG theory share a fundamental distrust and even hatred of the GM.

If A=C and B=C...

Quote from: One Horse Town;689334I see we have Denners Part II going on in this thread, too.

Goyf isn't looking much like a denner. He uses greentext (more of a 4chan thing) but also uses emoticons heavily (generally frowned on over there). From the looks of things he has shown up in a few places (the Den, here, TBP, and I can only guess /tg/) very nearly simultaneously after doing very very little lurking in any of those places.

Haven't seen enough of Arturik to guess at where he might hail from.

Sorry for the tangent. Back to your scheduled homicidal camping trips.

Quote from: Benoist;689366Talk about excluded middles. Dude, you are really bad at this. Seriously. You are making yourself look like a complete tool. Calm down and try to engage in actual conversations with people.

Whom pray tell was excluding the middle, I gave reasons why those plans might not work (or rather why the GM might not allow those plans to work) and then he responded by accusing me of being traumatized by a "bad GM". Assuming his idea of a "good GM" would be one who let all his plans work all the time isn't even a stretch -_-

Man... you ARE really bad at this.

Quote from: Benoist;689375Man... you ARE really bad at this.

Well it's hard to make arguments against people who don't have any. Seriously a huge amount of this forums traffic is people complaining that people like things they dislike. Accompanied of course by the flexing of a truly massive persecution complex.

Quote from: gamerGoyf;689372Whom pray tell was excluding the middle, I gave reasons why those plans might not work (or rather why the GM might not allow those plans to work) and then he responded by accusing me of being traumatized by a "bad GM". Assuming his idea of a "good GM" would be one who let all his plans work all the time isn't even a stretch -_-

yes, you gave reasons, and then wrote that a GM that acted to the contrary involved,  "an absurdly cooperative GM."  See, you need that part that moves you to a dichotomous situation to properly understand why there is an excluded middle.  That's the part you missed.
Glad to help.


"All of those scenarios assume an absurdly cooperative GM otherwise

"The rug is too wet to catch on fire, the troll eats you."

"You fail to escape, the troll eats you."

The troll is not convinced by your argument, then the troll eats you."

because in any "old-school" system heck in D&D Next even, those actions are governed solely by GM fiat. So if he isn't on board you are not escaping the troll today. Now you are right, combat being the only option on the table sucks. That has nothing to do with what isn't on peoples character sheet and everything to do with what is -_-"

RPGs are multi-contextual games. Character generation -- which is mere selection of dials along potential resolution rules -- is merely one context in the bunch. The rules are not, and cannot ever hope to be, the sole context provider in a shared imaginary world where there is an infinite response capacity.

Resolution rules, world setting, campaign scope, starting premise, participant dynamics structure, participant shared expectations, etc. are all layers that comprise "pretend-land." By the impossibility of the authors from being everywhere at once to determine adjudication of all these contexts, it is then left to focus elaboration on one  context, and a lot of recommendations and expected end-user adjudications for the remaining contexts. The magic of RPGs is the fluidity of end-user management of these multiple contexts to create dynamic responses to the participants' infinite capacity to engage this multi-layered system.

(Plus "Paradigm"... 'cuz if I'm gonna use $2 words like a corporate consultant I cannot forget the granddaddy buzzword of them all. )

Quote from: Benoist;689375Man... you ARE really bad at this.

Should I point out that it IS September?

Quote from: J Arcane;689380Should I point out that it IS September?

You just did.

Quote from: Opaopajr(Plus "Paradigm"... 'cuz if I'm gonna use $2 words like a corporate consultant I cannot forget the granddaddy buzzword of them all. )

Hey, I went a whole post without using it, it's the least you can do.

Quote from: LordVreeg;689378yes, you gave reasons, and then wrote that a GM that acted to the contrary involved,  "an absurdly cooperative GM."  See, you need that part that moves you to a dichotomous situation to properly understand why there is an excluded middle.  That's the part you missed.
Glad to help.

Those plans are all pretty bad for reasons that don't include the necessity of GM fiat, and my assumption of GM fiat thus also included the handwaving of those issues. I made the incorrect assumption that focusing on the core issue of GM fiat would be more efficient than listing the reason why those particular plans were dumb. Clearly this was a grave misstep.

Quote from: gamerGoyf;689377Well it's hard to make arguments against people who don't have any. Seriously a huge amount of this forums traffic is people complaining that people like things they dislike. Accompanied of course by the flexing of a truly massive persecution complex.

I agree too many people complain about things they don't like here. But your posts also seem to be complaints about things you don't like.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;689383I agree too many people complain about things they don't like here. But your posts also seem to be complaints about things you don't like.

Well I for one don't like that you're complaining about him complaining about people complaining about people that like things they don't like.



THE SERPENT STIRS.

Quote from: gamerGoyf;689364So you assume that the GM must always have your harebrained schemes succeed. That's some pretty hefty player entitlement you have there. Remind me to never run a game for you.

You haven't got much actual play experience, have you?

See, in actual play and not some artificial theory constructed arguement, the vast majority of gaming happens in the middle you are excluding. Most people remember and talk about the extremes because they are the outliers of that experience. Your inexperience is showing up in the very binary nature of your arguement, either all GMs are heartless ogres out to crush the Player or all GMs are spineless pussies that allow anything that the Player desires, these are internet constructs and don't usually show in real life.

Go, play some games, have some fun. I'm willing to talk to you about this subject later once you've got more actual play under your belt.

Quote from: Rincewind1;689384

Very cool logo. Do you have a source? Does the source have more cool logos?