Sneers at Dawn?

Quote from: The Traveller;683071If they're trying to become less penniless by riding on the coat tails of someone else's hard work and expense, then hell yes sue them. That's assuming you have access to the financial accounts of either the fans or the publishers of DW and can speak with any authority on the matter, which you don't.

Invoking the legal system has gotten something of a bad name due to abuses followed through by large companies, but I strongly believe in people protecting their work if that's what they want to do. If that means they're getting a bad name it's only among people who weren't going to be customers in the first place. You know what Catalyst were calling it? "The Year of Shadowrun". So along come these backalley hawkers and try to take advantage of that. It's bad business, at best unethical, at worst illegal.

We're talking about a dungeon crawling system being applied to a futuristic cyberpunk setting, a worse fit you'd be hard pressed to find - the only conclusion is opportunism.

I mean it when I say I'd have a great deal more respect for them if they put in the time and effort to create and market their own setting rather than latching on to people who really have put in the effort. And I started out ambivalent or even favourable towards the system as my posting record here will show.

Who are the 'they' in this instance though? Are you suggesting suing the publishers of DW, who have had (AFAIK) no involvement in this? Or the forum posters who created the thread, who have (AFAIK) no financial stake in the success of DW?

Even aside from the fact that conversion threads are ten a penny and have been a part of the hobby since the start. One of the early TSR books had stats for Cthulhu in D&D even!

Quote from: soviet;683079Who are the 'they' in this instance though? Are you suggesting suing the publishers of DW, who have had (AFAIK) no involvement in this? Or the forum posters who created the thread, who have (AFAIK) no financial stake in the success of DW?

At least one individual who I assume is a part of the official DW team showed up to heartily endorse the effort, but in this case it would make more sense to sue the converters. Are you suggesting it would be wrong to do so, ethically or legally?

Quote from: soviet;683079Even aside from the fact that conversion threads are ten a penny and have been a part of the hobby since the start. One of the early TSR books had stats for Cthulhu in D&D even!

Cthulhu is in the public domain. It's the timing I find reprehensible, around the same time as Shadowrun starts the big launch of their new product, ho look someone's pushing a dungeon crawl system as a conversion for a futuristic cyberpunk system under the same banner. Do me a favour.

It's nice to see that carelessness about DW winning Ennies.

And I don't like DW or AW or *W or anything that comes from Baker and his gaming apostles.

It's pretty fun, bro.  Give it a chance.

Traveller, talking about siccing the hounds on fan-conversions is something that actually would be harmful to the hobby.
Hate on DW all you like, but now you're barking up the wrong tree.

That said; I'd welcome any SR-conversions. It is an amazingly cool setting marred by some of the worst set of mechanics* known to man.
*I'm not familiar with the latest edition. I base my statement on the previous 4. Crap, every single one.

edit: Removed the post since I didn't feel like jumping into this particular fray, but well, too late, and might as well put on that armour.

Nice to see that carelessness about DW winning the Ennies.

And I don't like DW, AW, or any other *W or games coming from Baker and his gaming apostles.

Quote from: Archangel Fascist;683088It's pretty fun, bro.  Give it a chance.

Actually I will admit something - for me, the biggest turn off are the gaming hipsters who praised AW as the next coming of Homer. I actually played AW and it was a decent experience, though I could replicate the experience with a system I felt more comfortable and less abstract. Plus, the whole smug attitude about "GMs playing by the rules as everyone else" and "Play as Written" that's been such a strong point of "Indie" RPGs... Those principles turn me off more than the sex for experience moves (which I find rather ridiculous), really.

Admittedly however, while I do somewhat like D&D, the peons sung for it by fans of various editions, are also causing me to sneer and roll my eyes, especially when the discussions reach the inevitable point of "Why anything else, when there's D&D". And same rule applies to AW and it's clones for me.

Quote from: baragei;683092Traveller, talking about siccing the hounds on fan-conversions is something that actually would be harmful to the hobby.
Hate on DW all you like, but now you're barking up the wrong tree.

Had they waited for a few years until the SR launch was settled I'd agree with you, but this seems like an actively malicious attempt to scoop the cream off the top of someone else's cup of coffee.

Also, as already mentioned, I'm not opposed to DW as a system and I've no interest in SR, so it's not as though I'm arguing from a position of fandom.

Quote from: Archangel Fascist;683065Prove it.

Nah, that's okay thanks. You're the one who made the claim that "it's played in the style of old school games". The burden of proof is entirely on you.

Quote from: The Traveller;683052It's the first time I've seen blatant attempts to piggyback on major new releases by publishers through conversions by 'fans'. Can you point me to any other examples, like around the same time as a milestone publication?

Yeah, I'm not spending an evening on Google Timeline for you. You're so sure there's a conspiracy here? Prove it.

Shadowrun's hot right now because Catalyst are taking advantage of a slow year, and it's making everyone remember what they thought about the game, good or bad - and it's one of those games where the mechanics really do ruin the fun. Dungeon World is a popular new game. There's gonna be some crossover.

QuoteThe current price for DW stands at

free, for the online SRD

Quote, without which you can't use the conversion.

Actually, the conversion has all the rules you need, as far as I can tell. Other than the GM advice (Available for FREE), there's nothing else you'd need from a * World book, but Shadowrun books would certainly be useful. And you certainly wouldn't mistake this for an official Shadowrun product.

QuoteEdit: oh and yes, I would be absolutely delighted if Catalyst sued seven shades of shit out of those nimrods.

"I'd quite like the lawyers to selectively stomp out this game that mimmicks an IP in ways that make me upset".

Lawyers are not laser-guided.

Quote from: One Horse Town;683074If someone's going to try to get on their high-horse about so-called crusades, i think it's worth pointing out that that person is also involved in one - just from the opposite perspective.

I prefer to answer sneers with sneers.

Aye, fair enough. Soviet can fight his own damned crusade, I'm not getting involved in that.

But let's go back to the Initiative thread - third post in and it's derailed to "why are you talking about this here".

But hey, be the change and all that.

If people want to see more old school stuff in the ENies awards, you might consider simply approaching Morrus about adding such a category or set of categories for next year.  He might be open to that idea.

Quote from: Ladybird;683111Aye, fair enough. Soviet can fight his own damned crusade, I'm not getting involved in that.

Wait, what crusade am I fighting?

Quote from: Ladybird;683111Yeah, I'm not spending an evening on Google Timeline for you. You're so sure there's a conspiracy here? Prove it.

You're the one making the claim, you prove it. The onus isn't on me to support your statement that this is common practice, because it isn't. I'm guessing a quick googling provided nothing and so you're trying to make it my problem.

A swing and a miss.

Quote from: Ladybird;683111Shadowrun's hot right now because Catalyst are taking advantage of a slow year

Oh Catalyst is the one taking advantage. I see.

Quote from: Ladybird;683111free, for the online SRD

I don't follow, the first two links are to paid purchases and the third is to some sort of wiki-gibberish.

Quote from: Ladybird;683111Actually, the conversion has all the rules you need, as far as I can tell. Other than the GM advice (Available for FREE), there's nothing else you'd need from a * World book, but Shadowrun books would certainly be useful. And you certainly wouldn't mistake this for an official Shadowrun product.

So the fact that Catalyst just happens to be putting a lot of money and effort into marketing their game around the exact same time makes no never mind to you, huh.

Quote from: Ladybird;683111"I'd quite like the lawyers to selectively stomp out this game that mimmicks an IP in ways that make me upset".

Who said it upset me? By all accounts SR has a shit system, DW is probably better. What irritates me is chancers taking a punt on the back of someone else's hard work. Like I said, if they had waited a few years all would be dandy. What happens now, the DW D&D Next conversion? Hoy.

Quote from: soviet;683113Wait, what crusade am I fighting?

To be honest, I can't keep track of who's crusading for what any more. I can't even remember what my agenda is meant to be.

Ah, ha, ahaha , ha, jesus fucking christ you've gone off the deep end.

Fan conversions happen ALL THE TIME. Especially fan conversions of things that are in the public eye.

Emphasis on FAN. Fans are converting it. Not the creators. FANS. The people creating the conversions aren't doing it for money, they are doing it because they like Shadowrun's setting but probably think the rules are balls.

Just like how Benoist seems not to keen on Numenara because of the GM rolls no dice thing but is still interested in the setting.

The way you are conflating this into some conspiracy to make more money, by either the designers or the fans (which is hilarious considering the rules are in the conversion, and the conversion is free) is just absurd conspiracy theorist nonsense to take a piss on a brand you don't like over something that people have been doing since the beginning of the hobby.