Better than Kingmaker?

mcbobbo · August 05, 2013, 09:17:04 AM

With half of my summer 'Savage Worlds Rise of the Runelords' group about to go away to college, I am considering putting that on pause and running something else. Along these lines, I am looking towards Kingmaker:

http://paizo.com/pathfinder/adventurePath/kingmaker

And I was all geared up to buy it, too. Then the sticker shock kicked in. Those pdfs seem really expensive for ideas for a sandbox-ish campaign. Particularly when I can get rules from one of these two places:

http://paizo.com/products/btpy8x64?Pathfinder-Roleplaying-Game-Ultimate-Campaign
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/kingdom-building

So what I would be lacking is ideas for events, people nearby, 'puzzles', etc. Anyone want to pitch in? Anyone want to share what's worked in your games along these lines?

estar · August 05, 2013, 09:47:17 AM

They are not like my Blackmarsh where they give you the hexes and a paragraph or two of info.

It more like a Blackmarsh Complete where not only I give you the above but many of the locales are fully described adventure sites with full color maps and descriptions. Plus there are a bunch of peripheral add-ons like wanted posters or job advertisements that hooking into various locales.

The pages you linked too are a framework around which you can construct a campaign. Kingmaker is an implementation of the framework.

It one of their more worthy Adventure Paths.

thedungeondelver · August 05, 2013, 10:16:24 AM

Aw I thought this was about the old Avalon Hill game

mcbobbo · August 05, 2013, 10:46:07 AM

Quote from: thedungeondelver;677443Aw I thought this was about the old Avalon Hill game

Um, it could be?

Was that kingdom-building?

I plan to futz around with the system but good, so anything similar could probably prove useful.

RPGPundit · August 06, 2013, 05:16:28 AM

Quote from: thedungeondelver;677443Aw I thought this was about the old Avalon Hill game

I make that same mistake all the time.

RPGPundit

Phillip · August 06, 2013, 12:25:29 PM

@ mcbobbo:

Kingmaker (PhilMar original or AH) is an excellent multi-player board game of the "Wars of the Roses" dynastic conflict in 15th c. England.

Phillip · August 06, 2013, 12:39:50 PM

A note on mapping: The KM boardgame uses significant "areas" rather than a regular hex grid. For RPGs and miniatures campaigns, some people like simply to use a map with a scale.

One thing the hex grid facilitated in the original D&D design was random generation of features: "on the fly" mapping. Even when the Outdoor Survival board was used, the contents of spaces representing castles could be rolled up. It also made it easy to have a formal turn sequence with rolls for encounters.

Novastar · August 06, 2013, 12:56:05 PM

Pathfinder's Kingmaker is widely regarded as one of the best adventure paths Paizo has put out.

Now, I haven't played it yet (just started RotRL; we're close to finishing Chapter 1), but everyone who I've talked to has said good things about it, and it's the AP I'll be petitioning for next from our Pathfinder GM.

mcbobbo · August 06, 2013, 01:22:08 PM

Quote from: Novastar;677918Pathfinder's Kingmaker is widely regarded as one of the best adventure paths Paizo has put out.

Now, I haven't played it yet (just started RotRL; we're close to finishing Chapter 1), but everyone who I've talked to has said good things about it, and it's the AP I'll be petitioning for next from our Pathfinder GM.

I'm not going to get to finish my RotRL campaign unless I get really, really lucky. That said, adding all the Kingmaker line to my cart nets me $83.94. Since I can get all the kingdom rules for $10 via Ultimate Campaign, I have to at least consider spending that $70 on something else.

Particularly because I may never run an AP again. A year-long module is not very feasible, even when you take shortcuts.

It seems to me that I can plot-shift the concept, replace my own adventure events with custom content or retrofitted modules, and come away with a very similar experience.

What I lack are ideas and content. Thus the thread...

Novastar · August 06, 2013, 01:48:17 PM

Then why not buy the first Module or two, rather than the whole AP?

At least in ROTRL, Burnt Offerings offered an excellent home base (Sandpoint), and a good adventure set up between the Goblin Raid, Glasswork, Catacombs of Wrath, and Thistleknot. You're not so invested in the AP that you couldn't take it a different direction at that point.

That way, you can also suss out if it's an adventure to your liking, as well.

mcbobbo · August 06, 2013, 01:54:50 PM

Because to me, modules are like those bottles of Ragu at the grocery store. They suck pretty bad when used as presented. But if I taste it, season it, and bend it towards everyone's liking, it turns out pretty good. Yeah I could start from scratch, and have, but I am better as a collaborator than a solo act.

So if I am going to run one, I need to understand it inside and out. I need to know what 'tastes like', and what it will taste like after it simmers a while.

But I can't go making changes willy-nilly without knowing where they will wind up.

RPGPundit · August 07, 2013, 09:11:15 PM

I've used the Kingmaker (board game) map as a prop/geography aid in my Dark Albion game.

Kuroth · August 07, 2013, 09:24:06 PM

I enjoyed the computer game version of Avalon Hill's Kingmaker back in the dim past. It's abandonware these days, like a lot of old dos games from that time.

Kingmaker (1994) at Old-Games

JRR · August 08, 2013, 04:14:58 PM

Story feats? I just puked a little reading that.

RPGPundit · August 08, 2013, 05:06:21 PM

Quote from: Kuroth;678676I enjoyed the computer game version of Avalon Hill's Kingmaker back in the dim past. It's abandonware these days, like a lot of old dos games from that time.

Kingmaker (1994) at Old-Games

I had no idea this existed. Or if I knew, I'd forgotten. Thanks!