Quote from: Votan;668787How did it go?  I've always been of the opinion that Vampire could work as a traditional RPG instead of just a story game.

Hence the complaint from storygamers that the rest of us play it as "superheroes with fangs."

JG

Quote from: James Gillen;668795Hence the complaint from storygamers that the rest of us play it as "superheroes with fangs."

JG

My players played it like drug dealers/hitmen with fangs:)

Quote from: James Gillen;668795Hence the complaint from storygamers that the rest of us play it as "superheroes with fangs."

JG

Or "Trenchcoat and Katana".

Quote from: Ronin;668936My players played it like drug dealers/hitmen with fangs:)

Well, same thing.

Or maybe my group just plays supers like drug dealers and hitmen with capes.

JG

Quote from: Votan;668787How did it go?  I've always been of the opinion that Vampire could work as a traditional RPG instead of just a story game.

Vampire IS an RPG, just a bad one.

And if you mean how it went for me? Kind of dull, really; I'd been playing Amber for ages back then; watching the vampire-kiddies trying to be "machiavellian" was just kind of sad (something like watching a 13-year old trying to act like a tough guy).  I wiped the floor with them.

If you mean how did the game go overall? It collapsed under its own weight after a couple of years, and then the club that was doing it eventually went under.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Votan;668787How did it go?  I've always been of the opinion that Vampire could work as a traditional RPG instead of just a story game.

Fortunately no one ever told me Vampire was a story game, and I always ran it like any other rpg.

Quote from: Bill;669472Fortunately no one ever told me Vampire was a story game, and I always ran it like any other rpg.

As did we, but then it wasn't until I came on this site that I'd even heard the term "storygame" and it wasn't until I got ankle-deep in the Tangency culture that I had an inkling of what that mentality referred to.

JG

It's under construction on the development forum here.

Still gotta write up all my locations and NPCs. I am shamefully slow. But it is a delightfully non-Western Vampire sandbox: more paranoia and discretion than permitted kung fu fighting in the streets. Middle Eastern kingdoms hate to lose face from publicly unruly subjects.

Quote from: Bill;669472Fortunately no one ever told me Vampire was a story game, and I always ran it like any other rpg.

Again, its not a storygame. Its an RPG.

Quote from: RPGPundit;669962Again, its not a storygame. Its an RPG.

Except it was intended as a storygame, it gives GMing advice for storygaming, and it's whole raison d'etre was to tell and build stories. Just because it's mechanics are completely bonkers and don't support that goal at all, only makes it a shitty storygame.

"It can be played as any other RPG" is an argument usually dismissed when discussing other storygames. Either creator's intend matters when it comes to storygaming (which is often the crux of classification), or it doesn't.

Quote from: Rincewind1;669977Except it was intended as a storygame, it gives GMing advice for storygaming, and it's whole raison d'etre was to tell and build stories. Just because it's mechanics are completely bonkers and don't support that goal at all, only makes it a shitty storygame.

"It can be played as any other RPG" is an argument usually dismissed when discussing other storygames. Either creator's intend matters when it comes to storygaming (which is often the crux of classification), or it doesn't.

It wasn't a storygame, or ever promoted as such. It was promoted as a "Storytelling game", which is a different beast altogether. In fact, Storygamers despise it so much that they generally hold the WoD games in more contempt than they could ever dredge up for D&D, and that's saying a lot.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;670209It wasn't a storygame, or ever promoted as such. It was promoted as a "Storytelling game", which is a different beast altogether. In fact, Storygamers despise it so much that they generally hold the WoD games in more contempt than they could ever dredge up for D&D, and that's saying a lot.

RPGPundit

I admit I don't relate to 'storygames' as I kinda understand the term.

But I am curious why a 'storygamer' would hate Vampire more than dnd?

Quote from: Bill;670281I admit I don't relate to 'storygames' as I kinda understand the term.

But I am curious why a 'storygamer' would hate Vampire more than dnd?

Because the WoD sounds at first glance to be the kind of game they want; its all pretentious and smug, claims to be high art, is all about "story", etc. But in the delivery, its just a regular RPG with delusions of grandeur.  Its idea of "storytelling" is the GM (or worse, the published Metaplot) telling a pseudo-authorial tale where the players have no input and the Player Characters are often reduced to meaningless powerless witnesses or cheerleaders for pet NPCs doing great and important things.

Its like I said, in a way both Storygames and the Old-School movement are a reaction against 90s-White-Wolf-Storytelling, only their responses to the problem, their proposed solutions, were diametrically opposed to one another.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;670480Because the WoD sounds at first glance to be the kind of game they want; its all pretentious and smug, claims to be high art, is all about "story", etc. But in the delivery, its just a regular RPG with delusions of grandeur.  Its idea of "storytelling" is the GM (or worse, the published Metaplot) telling a pseudo-authorial tale where the players have no input and the Player Characters are often reduced to meaningless powerless witnesses or cheerleaders for pet NPCs doing great and important things.

Its like I said, in a way both Storygames and the Old-School movement are a reaction against 90s-White-Wolf-Storytelling, only their responses to the problem, their proposed solutions, were diametrically opposed to one another.

RPGPundit

I always see the meta-plot as a background piece used to increase tension and paranoia among the players.  It works best when the players never actually encounter the meta-plot but where it motivates the action.  Kind of the effect of distant wars on a game in the Traveller universe.  

Now whether it played out this way, I do not know.  My experience with vampire was positive but limited to a single GM (who may have been way better than average).  I do know I bought GURPS (Mage) after my own attempt to run a mage campaign.

Quote from: Votan;670538I always see the meta-plot as a background piece used to increase tension and paranoia among the players.  It works best when the players never actually encounter the meta-plot but where it motivates the action.  Kind of the effect of distant wars on a game in the Traveller universe.  

Except that unlike in Trav, that's not usually how things play out in a WoD game.