Related to the which-system-for-Game of Thrones/ASoIaF discussion, I was wondering what systems there are that support non-combat-centric play in a medievalesque fantasy environment? Are there any traditional (non-storygame) systems where a noncombatant player character is possible and viable?

Some characteristics I think would be desirable or necessary:
1. Ability to put all resources in non-combat skills/powers/abilities.
2. Ability for noncombatant PCs to be effective in play.
3. No escalating hit points.
4. Probably not level or class based?

Quote from: S'mon;662646Related to the which-system-for-Game of Thrones/ASoIaF discussion, I was wondering what systems there are that support non-combat-centric play in a medievalesque fantasy environment? Are there any traditional (non-storygame) systems where a noncombatant player character is possible and viable?

Some characteristics I think would be desirable or necessary:
1. Ability to put all resources in non-combat skills/powers/abilities.
2. Ability for noncombatant PCs to be effective in play.
3. No escalating hit points.
4. Probably not level or class based?

First i looked at the question, and though "Almost every Strorytelling System game/Game from White Wolf".
Ok, sure, Those games can be VERY combat-centric as well, but usually, a non-fighter has a good place in those games.
... And then i looked at you "criteria points", and thought "yup".
White Wolf's ST-games checks usually all boxes with ease, at least the ones i know.
I think it even holds true for "old" Werewolf, despite it being combat-centric.

And yes, they are rpgs, despite being called "storytelling games".

EDIT:
Oh, sorry, you were asking for Fantasy rpgs ...
I saw that part too late, somehow.
Although, old WoD did have something called "Dark Ages" ...

Ars Magica...?

(and 4th Edition is free!)

Well, I've found Rolemaster reduces the focus on combat.  The perceived deadliness discourages it and the broad range of skills enables other activities.

I'm working on my own fantasy game right at the moment and the core rules are done though much in need of playtest.  It does have leves and ascending hitpoints but the amount of damage needed to cause crippling wounds doesn't increase much and it's still pretty lethal.  

The "vocations" are just skill and attribute packages so you can just say "I'm playing a knight." and get on with it if you don't want to spend your time fiddling with the points.  If you want a tenth level knight you just multiply the skill points expenditures by ten.  The levels are there to cap out skill development so people don't just put all of their points in a single skill.  The levels are a bit soft and there are some talents that allow things like starting a level higher, owning a magic item, and allowing an additional point per level to be put into a skill.

What I do have that you might be interested in is a wide range of social skills like Insult, Provoke, Inspire, Convince, Intimidate, Ignore, and Dissemble and some rules on social relationships.

I'll have to convert it to pdf and put it up.  There's some of the material in the art of game design thread but some of it is a bit dated.

http://www3.telus.net/public/uncouths/Confabulation.pdf

Quote from: S'mon;662646Some characteristics I think would be desirable or necessary:
1. Ability to put all resources in non-combat skills/powers/abilities.
2. Ability for noncombatant PCs to be effective in play.
3. No escalating hit points.
4. Probably not level or class based?

Several systems can do #1, #3 and #4. My personal choice for this would be BRP, probably via Runequest 6 for a fantasy game.

#2 in my experience is more of a GM thing than a system thing. Someone mentioned Storyteller/Storytelling/WoD; we're nearing the close of a Vampire: The Requiem chronicle and my hacktivist-turned-vampire-elder-flunky PC has yet to enter combat. But I've also played WoD (old and new) games in which my Dex 2 and Firearms 1 would get me killed in a couple of sessions.

If you consistently, repeatedly put PCs in situations in which combat is a convenient solution, the non-combatant PCs will feel disenfranchised as the combat-ready PCs will dominate the game. Again, Runequest 6 is a neat system for this because combat can (and given time, will) fuck you up real good. For additional effect, set the game in a social context in which assault and murder are serious charges with very serious consequences.

Also, make sure non-combatant PCs have something to excel at, that's relevant to the game. Our vampire coterie has a hacker, an occultist, an assassin and a biker/brawler. For an ASoIaF-like intrigue-laden low fantasy game, you might want a scholar (like the Maesters of Westeros, or even a more "traditional" magically inclined character like a sorcerer or a priest; Epimetheus, the high priest of Mitra in "The Phoenix In The Sword" is a good example), a skulker (thief, spy, whatever), and one or more noblemen (with social and/or combat skills).

Personally, I've found that for most groups you need a mechanic that forces skill diversity.  Even social skills can be problematic when they go around dumping 100% of their points into them.  Especially games where the designers made this the most effective strategy in the game.

Hmmm...D&D 3.0 might be more effective than I first thought...Diplomacy is pretty broken.

But no, the main thing is to have a game where combat is deadly and disabling and the same for all parties.

Quote from: David Johansen;662664But no, the main thing is to have a game where combat is deadly and disabling and the same for all parties.

Harnmaster, then.

The One Ring has quite a lot of focus on journeys and social encounters, as much as combat combined.

Ryuutama has a lot of focus on journeys and resource management.

Reign has a lot of focus on domain level play.

Mistborn, though not medieval fantasy, equates social and mental aspects of conflict as much as combat.

Quote from: S'mon;662646Related to the which-system-for-Game of Thrones/ASoIaF discussion, I was wondering what systems there are that support non-combat-centric play in a medievalesque fantasy environment? Are there any traditional (non-storygame) systems where a noncombatant player character is possible and viable?

Some characteristics I think would be desirable or necessary:
1. Ability to put all resources in non-combat skills/powers/abilities.
2. Ability for noncombatant PCs to be effective in play.
3. No escalating hit points.
4. Probably not level or class based?

I use a skill based system and some of our games are very non-combat based.  Currently, we are prepping for the next online game, which is set in a large school of magic, and the central idea is to play the experiences of these novices as they go through life at school, improving their abilities, making friends and networking.

We've found that #3 is not an absolute, as long as the system is nuanced to make combat still dangerous, BTW.

I would also say that a level of granularity of ability growth is desirable, as it keeps the interest and allows for growth in non-combat areas.  Also, if magic is part of the setting, there should be a larger amount of non-combat spells than combat versions.

The One Ring.
Runequest.
Early Dark.
Pendragon.
Ars Magica.
Chronica Feudalis.
WoD Dark Ages.

Quote from: silva;662969The One Ring.
Runequest.
Early Dark.
Pendragon.
Ars Magica.
Chronica Feudalis.
WoD Dark Ages.

good list.

You can play D&D with out much combat to be honest.

Using a 2e system I have had games focusing on investigations, burglary, politics, magical research (and magical one upmanship) and exploration.

Depends on the line between roleplay and game. As a game most fantasy rulesets put combat front and centre but if you do more roleplaying then a fantasy game can be as combat light as CoC.

I don't think its a gritty or dangerous combat system that makes the difference either, Runequest combat can be really deadly as can rolemaster but you still get people playing mostly combat games with those systems.

If I build a ruin and populate it with skeletons or orcs or goblins or whatever, the game will be combat focused. If I build a ruin and populate it with the intangiable spiritis of dead priests and put in some magical puzzles or traps or whatever then there will be less combat.
Depends on what the GM sets up and on players expectations.

Any trait-based RPG would suffice, I'd say.
Like Over the Edge or RISUS.

There is a fantasy adaption of OTE: Under the Broken Moon

If this is the sort of thing you want, I'd probably suggest Pendragon.

Quote from: RPGPundit;663480If this is the sort of thing you want, I'd probably suggest Pendragon.

Pendragon looks good, but the edition I have seems focused around playing only knights, ie martial characters.