Quote from: Zak S;637680okay

By the way, I think you have some great ideas (via your blog) for how modules could be better packaged, and made more user-friendly.

Quote from: Benoist;637476Well when you are shoveling out shit module after shit module, you won't be making much money out of them, that's for sure.

Unless you own a brand that people will buy no matter what. Even if it's just to add to their collection.

Quote from: jeff37923;637706Yes, he can get that way.

Just remind him of this thread, and in particular this post.

I'm actually glad to be reminded of that fiasco. I think it was a great moment for me, and my appreciation of games really, when I owned up to the fact that I was full of shit making blanket statements about this or that game and their fandoms, and actually realized that when people want to be assholes, whether at the game table or on this or that internet venue, they just are, individually... and as much as it doesn't say much about who they actually are in real life, it doesn't say much about the fandoms of these games either, in general.

Like you being an opportunistic asshole on your personal vendetta smelling blood and posting for the increased aggravation right now? That doesn't say anything about Traveller or Labyrinth Lord fandoms in general. I know that now.

Thank you, Jeff, for this reminder.

Quote from: Zak S;637559Is he like this with everybody?

That made me spit out my Colt 45. (I'm a poor hoodrat, I make no apologies)

Not because I dislike Benoist (quite the contrary) but I think he's been riding you in this thread far beyond what is reasonable and I don't really see why.

That might be because I mostly agree with you; I don't think modules are necessary, I tend to (tend to) think they make GMs lazy, and are more work than they are worth. But that's because I learned how to play RPGs by playing games that didn't have them. In 15 years of GMing, I didn't use them until 2 years ago, with the exception of one spectacular failure that I had to completely redesign on the fly mid-game session.

The people I game with were all ADnD buffs back in the day, but as far as I know, they didn't run modules either. I know that they own a LOT of modules, but as far as I know, they've never run them, at least when I've played with them.

All I've ever needed was a rule book and my imagination. Sounds cliche, but cliches exist for a reason.

I've only started using modules (and only three: Grinding Gear, Death Frost Doom, and some thing I can't remember the name of I found on Dragonsfoot) the past couple years because I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. Grinding Gear was spectacular, DFD was mediocre, and the Dragonsfoot adventure (I doubt it can even be called a module, actually) I had to modify so much that it barely resembles the original (and I probably could have made something better in less time if I wasn't trying to use a module).

So, in my opinion, modules are unnecessary and more work than they are worth.

But then again, I've never purchased a $100+ module and tried to run it, so I have no feelings to get hurt over someone saying modules are pointless.

Quote from: jeff37923;637706Yes, he can get that way.

Just remind him of this thread, and in particular this post.

Did you bookmark that in the hope that someday you could try to throw it in his face?

Or did you actually spend the time to search for it?

Either way, dude...

Quote from: everloss;637775Did you bookmark that in the hope that someday you could try to throw it in his face?

Or did you actually spend the time to search for it?

Either way, dude...

My initial reaction, as well.

Quote from: J Arcane;636888Any module is no better than the DM running it, and if the DM's at all half-decent, then what he can create for his players will always be better tuned to their collective tastes than some pre-written bunch of keyed and numbered dungeon entries.  

This is a creative hobby.

Be creative.

I agree; at the same time, modules do HALF the work for the uber-creative GM. He doesn't need to run them as-is, but he can brutally defile them into the particular vision he has, often saving time with things like maps, monsters, etc.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;638159...modules do HALF the work for the uber-creative GM. He doesn't need to run them as-is, but he can brutally defile them into the particular vision he has, often saving time with things like maps, monsters, etc.

RPGPundit

Exactly. As I've gotten older I've used more and more published material, primarily because other demands on my time have increased dramatically. Using modules saves me a lot of work, even if I have to substantially alter them.

EDIT TO ADD: I also think Justin makes an excellent point upthread: modules often serve as an introduction or entry-point into what a game does. People here are speaking (largely) from years of prior experience. You had your introduction, probably from other players. But growing the hobby is greatly aided by someone being able to pick up a couple books and figure out what to do with them without the requirement of a mentor. The Basic line (with its included adventures) worked very well as that gateway through the 80s.

Quote from: Bobloblah;638332Exactly. As I've gotten older I've used more and more published material, primarily because other demands on my time have increased dramatically. Using modules saves me a lot of work, even if I have to substantially alter them.

Agreed. It also gets easier to use a module for your purposes as you repeat the process.

I am at a stage where I am able to do most of the alterations on the fly.

I don't rewrite the entire module.

Quote from: Bill;638334Agreed. It also gets easier to use a module for your purposes as you repeat the process.

I am at a stage where I am able to do most of the alterations on the fly.

I don't rewrite the entire module.

Exactly. I also read far, far faster than I can write or type (even truncated notes), and have always had the ability to absorb (memorise) text I've recently read. This has made using modules a no-brainer. Add to that the fact that TSR era D&D (and any clone) is very easy to modify on the fly, unlike newer editions, and it's a winning combination when time is a constraint.

Quote from: Bobloblah;638332Exactly. As I've gotten older I've used more and more published material, primarily because other demands on my time have increased dramatically. Using modules saves me a lot of work, even if I have to substantially alter them.

EDIT TO ADD: I also think Justin makes an excellent point upthread: modules often serve as an introduction or entry-point into what a game does. People here are speaking (largely) from years of prior experience. You had your introduction, probably from other players. But growing the hobby is greatly aided by someone being able to pick up a couple books and figure out what to do with them without the requirement of a mentor. The Basic line (with its included adventures) worked very well as that gateway through the 80s.

BTW, reading Justin's Old School uses of Caverns of Thracia in game on his blog is a fucking treat.

Quote from: Bobloblah;638335Exactly. I also read far, far faster than I can write or type (even truncated notes), and have always had the ability to absorb (memorise) text I've recently read. This has made using modules a no-brainer. Add to that the fact that TSR era D&D (and any clone) is very easy to modify on the fly, unlike newer editions, and it's a winning combination when time is a constraint.

There is something about many newer modules that feels wrong to me, and I don't know what it is yet.

Quote from: LordVreeg;638367BTW, reading Justin's Old School uses of Caverns of Thracia in game on his blog is a fucking treat.

Thanks for the tip, but I have, in fact, read them, and they're as good as you say. Justin's blog is one of the few RPG blogs I've intentionally gone back to.

Quote from: Bill;638379There is something about many newer modules that feels wrong to me, and I don't know what it is yet.

Is that to say modules for newer systems (e.g 3.x, 4E, etc.), or simply anything newer chronologically speaking?

Quote from: LordVreeg;638367BTW, reading Justin's Old School uses of Caverns of Thracia in game on his blog is a fucking treat.

Thanks! Link for those interested.

This also highlights another way in which modules can be useful: Injecting someone else's creativity into your campaign world. (I often compare this to the difference between developing an original script for a theatrical production and remounting Hamlet or The Crucible.)

In Caverns of Thracia, for example, Jaquays' creates a really unique "pulp Greek mythology" vibe that I wouldn't have created on my own. But I really enjoyed picking up those toys and playing with them. And once I played with them for awhile, their influence ended up being felt throughout the entire setting.

Similarly, Monte Cook brings his own unique viewpoint to the dungeon complex in the Banewarrens. Even though I've added an extra half dozen original vaults, revamped some of the original vaults, and remixed the active opposition to include factions personalized to my PCs, Cook's creative vision is still there.

The result of all this is that my game worlds are richer specifically because I'm incorporating and interpreting the creative visions of other people.