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More Dwimmermount Madness

Started by Zachary The First, March 13, 2013, 05:54:40 PM

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Fiasco

The money is clearly gone and JMal is nothing but a thief and a coward.  

I pity all those who mistakenly put faith in him and were burned.

ACKS made some terrible decisions but at least they are doing what they can.

All I hope is that JMal isn't given a free pass by his buddies in the G+ ivory tower. His shit should be called out wherever he pokes out his turtle neck.

KenHR

Quote from: trechriron;637197I have to say something. Probably not going to make me popular, but here goes.

I call bullshit on the grieving thing. BULL. SHIT.

I've been working in the professional computer nerd biz for 12 years now. NO ONE. NOT. ONE. of my colleagues who suffered a death in the family (wife, father, brother, CHILD!!!!) left work for more than two weeks, and it DID NOT effect job performance. These people stoically and professionally soldiered on through their grief. In fact, keeping to routines, completing deadlines, and what not actually helped them cope with the loss.

Folks, death is a natural part of life. As is divorce, break-ups, accidents, weather, illness, and a whole long list of "shit". Shit happens. Murphy rules, everyone gets their turn, and for FUCKS SAKE we all WE ALL have to fucking deal with it.

This DOES NOT excuse ripping people off. Period.

This ding dong needs to pull up his big boy shorts up, pull his head out of his grieving pucker hole, MAN UP, and get his shit done. GIT. IT. DONE. This isn't only a fucking travesty of justice but could harm future Kickstarters.

I really don't care about the particulars. Either this dude produces what he promised or he's a fucking douche bag. Period.

Just my two cents, sorry for the spit on the screen.

Amen to that.  A co-worker's fiance died in a freak accident last year, a few days after they had completed their wedding plans.  They ceremony was two months away.

My co-worker was devastated.  After a little over a week, though, she was back to work and doing the bang-up job she always does.  I'm quite sure the bosses were willing to give her all the time she needed to get herself back together, but she had a spine and stepped up.

And on toppa that, didn't the delays and such start before this dad business came up?
For fuck\'s sake, these are games, people.

And no one gives a fuck about your ignore list.


Gompan
band - other music

Gene Weigel

Quote from: thedungeondelver;637136Take your goddamn medication, Gene.

He's on the pot again!

I actually don't smoke pot while I play.

Alright maybe a little bit. About half a cup...

Gene Weigel

Quote from: Sacrosanct;637153A bit of a disclaimer.  I have no idea who you are, and never heard of you until just the past week or so.  But I've seen you mention how some really big names in the industry have approached you to help do work for them.  At the same time, I have a really hard time trying to follow any of your posts in any comprehensive way.  So knowing the latter, it really would surprise me that the former had occurred.

Heh, I'll reply to your mumbo jumbo if you point out these industry giants!

Maliszowski? Don't know him. I think he's a sock puppet...

crkrueger

Is this guy still posting in his G+ hugbox while he's flipping the bird to Autarch?
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

Sacrosanct

Quote from: Gene Weigel;637219Heh, I'll reply to your mumbo jumbo if you point out these industry giants!

Maliszowski? Don't know him. I think he's a sock puppet...

I was referring to this post

Quote from: Gene Weigel;635652As for Kuntz. well... in 2002 when I was at GenCon, when I was Kuntz's "main designer" (his words not mine), !


Which made me raise my eyebrows, because quite frankly, your posts read to me as if written by the Mad Hatter
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Mistwell

#66
Quote from: trechriron;637197I've been working in the professional computer nerd biz for 12 years now...These people stoically and professionally soldiered on

Your experience is not universal experience.

In fact, by definition I think you will find "professional computer nerd business" is nothing at all like "professional artistic type business".  It's essentially two extremes of the scale - right brain vs. left brain.  

I am not excusing his behavior, but I definitely think it plays a role here.  I think James can't cope with what is going on.  Not everyone is built the same.  I had a friend who simply could not cope with things and hid in his house (for the most part) for TWELVE YEARS because of it.  They had to find new experimental drugs to eventually snap him out of it and were seriously considering shock therapy for him.  You never know what mental illness might be hidden in someone that gets triggered by a traumatic event.

Anyway, bottom line is you don't know how he thinks, and your experiences and reactions to emotional situations are not universal experiences and reactions.

Sacrosanct

Quote from: Mistwell;637231Your experience is not universal experience.

In fact, by definition I think you will find "professional computer nerd business" is nothing at all like "professional artistic type business".  It's essentially two extremes of the scale - right brain vs. left brain.  

I am not excusing his behavior, but I definitely think it plays a role here.  I think James can't cope with what is going on.  Not everyone is built the same.  I had a friend who simply could not cope with things and hid in his house (for the most part) for TWELVE YEARS because of it.  They had to find new experimental drugs to eventually snap him out of it and were seriously considering shock therapy for him.

Anyway, bottom line is you don't know how he thinks, and your experiences and reactions to emotional situations are not universal experiences and reactions.

That's all well and good, and might be true, but the bottom line is he was effectively running a business.  I can't think of a single industry where a death in the family means you no longer have to provide the goods you promised.  So as far as everyone who gave him money expecting a service or product in return, the death in his family is irrelevant and doesn't, or shouldn't, play a role.

I mean, if I preorder a copy of Mass Effect IV, and the lead designer's dad dies.  I don't care.  I have my own problems, and don't need to worry about some stranger I don't know.  I expect my product after only a reasonable delay.

And now it's my turn to sound like the asshole.  If you're so sensitive that you effectively shut down for 6 months or a year or longer from a death in the family, you shouldn't be in the business of taking people's money.  Two years ago our neighbor's son (best friends with my son) died in a freak longboard accident.  She still hasn't gotten over it (nor do I expect her to), but she still functions on a daily basis and accomplishes her responsibilities.  And this was her son, not her dad.  I feel safe in saying that people grieve a lot more when it's their kids that pass, as opposed to their parents, especially if it wasn't a sudden thing with their parents. I know I sure as hell would be a lot more affected if one of my kids died as opposed to my parents.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Vargold

Just for clarification: James's father is not, as far as I know, dead. At last account, he was in extremely bad health, dipping toward death and back toward life again. So part of the issue here is clearly the stress of the ongoing roller-coaster that is his father's situation.

This in no way excuses James's failure to communicate with Autarch at all, which I find distressing in the extreme.
9th Level Shell Captain

"And who the hell is Rod and why do I need to be saved from him?" - Soylent Green

Mistwell

Quote from: Sacrosanct;637232That's all well and good, and might be true, but the bottom line is he was effectively running a business.  I can't think of a single industry where a death in the family means you no longer have to provide the goods you promised.

What part of "not to excuse his behavior" was unclear? If he cannot cope, he should contact Tavis and tell him and give it over to Tavis to finish.  It's not excusing his behavior, but it's explaining how it plays a role in his behavior.

QuoteAnd now it's my turn to sound like the asshole.  If you're so sensitive that you effectively shut down for 6 months or a year or longer from a death in the family, you shouldn't be in the business of taking people's money.

Generally speaking with mental health issues like this, you don't know how you're going to react to the circumstances until they happen.  This happens with soldiers sometimes as well (part of the purpose of basic training - to push people to the point where you can weed out those who cannot cope but think they can).  Sometimes, all your life experiences tell you that you can deal with death OK, and then when it happens you find out you just can't.

All these personal examples of people who dealt OK with death are meaningless, and shows a big "Missing of the Point".  Not all humans are alike on this kind of thing.  Some react different than others, and there will be extremes on both ends, and a thousand examples still doesn't prove that all humans react similarly or within a range that you know for sure you can set.  Some people will still be outside that range, and you don't know it until it happens.

VectorSigma

Quote from: Mistwell;637236All these personal examples of people who dealt OK with death are meaningless, and shows a big "Missing of the Point".  Not all humans are alike on this kind of thing.  Some react different than others, and there will be extremes on both ends, and a thousand examples still doesn't prove that all humans react similarly or within a range that you know for sure you can set.  Some people will still be outside that range, and you don't know it until it happens.

The average reaction is why we have a norm, and the phrase 'acceptable behavior'.  This is outside the norm.  That's the point.  You're the one who's missing it this time, Mistwell.


Autarch is trying their best to come out of this with as little brand damage as possible, and it's going to be very very difficult.  The coupon idea is...well, it's a little weird, particularly because it pushes the onus back on the customer, who already feels wronged.  I would've thought it a better move to replace product with like product rather than 'credits'.
Wampus Country - Whimsical tales on the fantasy frontier

"Describing Erik Jensen\'s Wampus Country setting is difficult"  -- Grognardia

"Well worth reading."  -- Steve Winter

"...seriously nifty stuff..." -- Bruce Baugh

"[Erik is] the Carrot-Top of role-playing games." -- Jared Sorensen, who probably meant it as an insult, but screw that guy.

"Next con I\'m playing in Wampus."  -- Harley Stroh

Fiasco

JMal already defrauded his artists before his father's death.

At this point it's pretty safe to say that a family death is not particularly germane to the issues at hand. In all likelihood the money was all gone before December 2012.

ggroy

Quote from: Mistwell;637231I had a friend who simply could not cope with things and hid in his house (for the most part) for TWELVE YEARS because of it.  They had to find new experimental drugs to eventually snap him out of it and were seriously considering shock therapy for him.

(If you don't mind me asking).

Did this person do something like stare at the wall all day?

Or did they watch tv all day?  Or listen to the same song over and over again all day?

Mistwell

Quote from: VectorSigma;637238The average reaction is why we have a norm, and the phrase 'acceptable behavior'.  This is outside the norm.  That's the point.  You're the one who's missing it this time, Mistwell.

I'm not.  Again, what part of "not excusing his behavior" is not sinking in? I didn't say his reaction is "acceptable" I said THIS PLAYS A ROLE IN HIS BEHAVIOR.  Understanding is not accepting.  I understand why people are racist, I don't accept racists.  See the difference?  I am not encouraging people to accept his behavior, I am simply examining the factors involved with his behavior.  Someone claimed they knew this was a bullshit reaction - and I am calling bullshit on their bullshit claim.  Nobody knows if this reaction is genuine or not - we can not accept his failure to provide the product, or give it over to Tavis, while simultaneously understanding that mental health issues may have played a role in his bad behavior.  That doesn't excuse his bad behavior, it just might explain part of it - and explaining something is not the same as excusing it.

QuoteAutarch is trying their best to come out of this with as little brand damage as possible, and it's going to be very very difficult.  The coupon idea is...well, it's a little weird, particularly because it pushes the onus back on the customer, who already feels wronged.  I would've thought it a better move to replace product with like product rather than 'credits'.

It's IN ADDITION TO what you get from the Kickstarter, not INSTEAD OF.  Are people just not reading the thing?

VectorSigma

Quote from: Mistwell;637241I am not encouraging people to accept his behavior, I am simply examining the factors involved with his behavior.   and explaining something is not the same as excusing it.

Consider it explained, then.  Coming back to it over and over starts to look like excusing.



Quote from: Mistwell;637241It's IN ADDITION TO what you get from the Kickstarter, not INSTEAD OF.  Are people just not reading the thing?

From the original KS, or the new sorta-replacement-KS-thing?  I'll completely cop to not having read it thoroughly.  "Coupons seem weird" stands.
Wampus Country - Whimsical tales on the fantasy frontier

"Describing Erik Jensen\'s Wampus Country setting is difficult"  -- Grognardia

"Well worth reading."  -- Steve Winter

"...seriously nifty stuff..." -- Bruce Baugh

"[Erik is] the Carrot-Top of role-playing games." -- Jared Sorensen, who probably meant it as an insult, but screw that guy.

"Next con I\'m playing in Wampus."  -- Harley Stroh