Quote from: Malphaeus;626105He didn't say you can't play that way, he is just pointing out that what you say happens sometimes can't be represented properly in a real physical sense; consistently.

I'm okay with that. If only he'd stop with the snide insinuations that I'm cognitively deficient and childish because I'm not bothered by the minor inconsistency that comes from mapless play.

Once again I'll remind everyone that Gliechman is the one who argued that if you ignored or changed rules in a game you are a BAD PERSON, as in MORALLY SUSPECT and possible contributing to the decline of society.

Really. He said that.

The man is a class one imbecile.

Blackhand just seems to have a bad case of one-true-wayism.

Quote from: Benoist;626093Who's telling whom their style is impossible to play as they claim they are playing it?

You are, Brian.

QED.

You were doing well being silent, now you're just confirming what a idiot you are.

I dont claim their *style* is impossible, only the superhuman mental ability that would be needed to make combat under it consistent and accurate. Much like I would object to someone claiming that playing role-playing games taught him the meaning of courage, or how to bounce bullets off his chest.

Quote from: gleichman;626116I dont claim their *style* is impossible, only the superhuman mental ability that would be needed to make combat under it consistent and accurate.

See? You're doing it again. Gaming without minis and maps can only result in inconsistent, inaccurate game play. It's just not possible to do it, unless you are endowed with superhuman mental abilities (such as you have, of course, since you can play chess blindfolded and whatnot).

Quote from: Piestrio;626111Once again I'll remind everyone that Gleichman is the one who argued that if you ignored or changed rules in a game you are a BAD PERSON, as in MORALLY SUSPECT and possible contributing to the decline of society.

But you can play that way you know? It's just that you are a bad person, morally suspect, and if, to boot, you play without miniatures and claim not to have any problems in regards to consistency or accuracy, it must mean you are either delusional, or lying. It must be the latter! You are morally suspect, after all.

Quote from: Benoist;626127(such as you have, of course, since you can play chess blindfolded and whatnot).

Playing blindfold chess isn't impossible, just very difficult (at least IME). Grandmasters often give demos (and much more impressive ones than I was ever capable of).

Of course I wouldn't believe a claim that there's a chess grandmaster here  without proof (I'd consider it unfounded bragging). And you are certainly free to believe that I was never capable of the feat as I offer no proof, I only listed at the time to point out that I knew personally how difficult the task is- and that's when restricted to a simple 8x8 2-D grid with very limited movement options.

I can't imagine attempting the task in something like a 30x50 grid with the 3-D terrain that I typically use in my rpgs.

Quote from: Piestrio;626111Blackhand just seems to have a bad case of one-true-wayism.

To be fair, it seems a lot of people on this board have the same ailment.

Quote from: Malphaeus;626137To be fair, it seems a lot of people on this board have the same ailment.

You'll get little in the way of argument from me there.

Quote from: One Horse Town;625881Welcome, Blackhand's group!

Thanks... Me, Blackhand, and a few others have been in the same gaming circle for well over 15+ years.

-BLACKHAND SPOILER ALERT-

When I was 15 years old I met Blackhand. We were both nerdy kids with an ear for metal music and an eye for good books. I hated him after a while because he always seemed to be a hardass and had a way of sounding like he was working overly hard to prove his point.

We became bitter nemisis with CCGs (MTGO mainly), Warhammer 40k, and just about anything that was playable and fantasy based. On top of all this, I admit I always looked foreward to being invited to game nights for D&D. He was a decent DM even as a teenager and was very anal over literal RAW conduct.

Over 16 years of friendship we have been roommates, co-workers, conspirators, and probably other dubious functions working togather. One thing has remained constant: Roleplay and Tabletop Warhammer. This is what we do every weekend, every week, of every month, of every year... and have been for a while. RAW is how we try to keep it, for in our experience the book is always right and the reason we even bought the book was to use the rulesets.

Im not bashing anyone on this board.... RPG gaming is a personal road for many to have traveled... meaning play types, house rules, and ammendments you played or used personally to make your games go smoother to the liking of all. Theres no shame there... But there is also no shame in our RAW and nose the the grindstone approach to things. The books always say so... and the last word of a rules lawyer is always a quote from the pages on our table.

You can see how we roll with updates weekly... every week of every year on ... //www.thewargate.blogspot.com ... and see our states of play. We are super active.

Game on and enjoy your hobby time, but please think twice before you sit and bash without really knowing who your talking about or what your talking about for that matter...

I just went back and read the start of the thread. I don't see any real problem with the way Blackhand is going about things.

We have house rules, but they are documented and freely available. We are also in a playtest state so everyone knows things are in flux, and we have a talk at the start of each session about what, if any changes are being made. However, aside from that I play as RAW as possible, and dice are out in the open. Every. Fucking. Roll.
 
I'm certain that Blackhand and I would disagree on many things realted to games, but I don't see any of them in this thread.

I just went back and read the start of the thread. I don't see any real problem with the way Blackhand is going about things.
We have house rules, but they are documented and freely available. We are also in a playtest state so everyone knows things are in flux, and we have a talk at the start of each session about what, if any changes are neing made. However, aside from that I play as RAW as possible, and dice are out in the open. Every. Fucking. Roll.
I'm certain that Blackhand and I would disagree on many things realted to games, but I don't see any of them inthis thread.


I also make the players come up with their own motivations for hanging together.

just read the thread... if y'all don't like your characters and want to roll up a new party, then go for it. seems the players are psyched. seems like you've got a good plan for a reboot.

and perhaps there is a lesson here for the players: when rolling up a PC, do it in the context of your collective goal for playing. if you all agree that the scenario is just a backdrop for interpersonal drama, then yeah, roll up that paladin while the other guy let's the finishing touches on his LE demon summoner.

 if you all agree that you want to play through a classic module and enjoy a specific classic system, then put together a party that reflects these goals.

so during the reboot meeting, I would ask for clarification as to your expectations .

Quote from: Looter Guy;626142Game on and enjoy your hobby time, but please think twice before you sit and bash without really knowing who your talking about or what your talking about for that matter...

That would be extremely hard, this whole site is dedicated to sitting back and bashing people who play make-believe in a different way than the 40 odd people who post on a consistent manner do.

Well, ive spent the last few mins getting caught up on the thread and i must say, I am really looking forward to the game on sunday, and ive learned alot from all of you. Imperator, I want to thank you for attempting to bring things back on track. for those of you who have spent valuable time and energy trying to stymie my DM black hand. Hah, you just make him work harder, if possible. Everytime you feebly attempt to hack at our clubs particular gaming philosophy, it just makes that weeks game more energized. We are all highly motivated gamers. The trolls just shovel coal into the engine. So really thank you. Benoist, you I want to thank the most, your bile filled comments, have truly inspired me to come at this with new focus. Every gnoll, bugbear, gelatinous cube will secretly wear your name. And my group will win, using the rules, as they were written. As the designers of the game intended, as the pioneers of the game we all claim to love intended. Because thats what our project is all about. Gaming is as near and dear to me, ive played in alot of different groups. But im not quite old enough to have experienced Dungeons and Dragons in its original form ,which directly evolved from WARGAMES. i think thats something that no one on this thread has brought up. The 1st edition is only a few steps removed from true tactical wargames, it is my and our clubs belief that this is how the game was intended to be played.

We arent talking about Vampire: The whatever, those games are titled the stroyteller system. That particular rule set is always form over function, Most modern rpgs always have that "just have fun if the rules dont suit you", paragraph, page or whatever. We dont physically rip that page out of the books, but we may as well. (Is that a rule, omg we play rules as written, fatal exception error, system reboot, lol). Anyways the point being that is our groups style, Deus ex Machina always feels dirty to us.

Now as to how we actually will fix our shortsighted character choices, I have some ideas. Some of these were adapted from some of the more helpful responses on this thread, so once again to those who are constructive. I SALUTE YOU!

1. It is not Blackhands place to restrict our alignment. We (the players) should have been policing this ourselves the whole time. If we had been more diligent in this regard, we might have pissed off the players who generated evil characters, but we wouldnt be at this motivation impasse. Any good aligned character who saw what was going on in the temple should feel motivated to destroy that abomination.

2. If someone else doesnt do it, i intend to play a representative of the Archcleric who recently arrived in Hommlet. My characters mission will be to seek good adventurers who will see the need to destroy the blight of the temple for its own sake. Not for riches, or fame, in fact our mission must be secret. We must not bring down greater evil to the temple prematurely. I will suggest to the characters that we will take a vow or mark, dedicating our selves  to utterly destroying the Temple. Our allegence to the Archcleric might give us access to other likeminded indivduals should any more of our number fall to the temples minions. The crux of the matter is that all of the players must under stand that only as a unified front will our few number be able to complete this task.

3. With this mind, I would suggest that the group as a whole tale a different approach to things like loot. We should hold the groups wealth in trust, for things like levelling. The sheer cost in gold just to level in this game is staggering, It just makes sense, and when we defeat the temple of course there will equal shares for all partys involved. magic items should always go to who ever can benefit the most from it, not neccessarily sold. (we usually are good about that bit.) But it all goes back to the team mentality, it usually comes very easily to our group. But the attrition rate took us all by surprise, only one player in our game is old enough to have played 1st ed when it was new. We did get divorced from the concept of character motivation, and we we short sighted in that we didnt think that we would all be on third generation characters. 1st ed is brutal (kinda wargame like in that regard, huh). So a little long term strategy and a fresh start are just what we need.

4. To those of you who dont seem to get it, the campaign has not failed. It does require a little restructuring. All of our previosu characters deaths on reinforce the need to destroy the Temple. I think its a delightful prelude to whats to come. Think of it basically two or three adventuring partys have went down and more or less not come up. (Or ran out figuratively and in some cases  literally screaming). Something must be done, word has tralvelled to the Dyvers and Greyhawk city. Something evil has stirred, foul references to Iuz, Lolth, and of course the enigmatic Elemental Eye have been seen. What a great opening for a group of dedicated defenders of good, to show up and destroy this temple once and for all.

To all the Wargaters, lets put our head together, and create a team of super heroes who actually like each other and let burn this bitch down!


ARE YOU WITH ME?

p.s. To the trolls st. johns wort is really great to help improve your overall mood. You take it three times daily, and sunshine really does improve your outlook. Try going outside, its a big exciting world out there. They have girls.

Quote from: DestroyYouAlot;625589You're right, it doesn't.  You can simply attack any target within 10 feet of you.  10 feet.  More than enough to get in a few ranks.

Quote from: Blackhand;625616I'm not sure where you got that number either.  When I represent combat on the board, the squares are 5' (that is, 1 map square = 4 tile squares).  That's melee range to me.

Nice house rule.  1" = 10 feet = melee range in RAW AD&D (read the combat section, it's quite illuminating).

QuoteIt's answers like this that make me absolutely certain no one here has even attempted to play AD&D 1e RaW.

That said, pairing or grouping combatants is very important when initiative scores are tied.  I can see where it would be very confusing if you didn't look at each pairing or grouping of combatants as a different combat.

Consider weapon speed factors, casting times and the general flow of the combat resolution sequence on page 61 of the DMG.

Remember that actions are declared before initiative is rolled.  If you look at ADDICT, you'll see what I mean, even if the word "paired" should have been "grouped" to cover more than one opponent on a single individual.

Funny, I played in a regular game with the creator of ADDICT for some time, works just fine in his game (and Dave is quite the stickler for BtB AD&D ).


In all seriousness, you act like a complete shitheel to the people that come in here and attempt to help you in good faith, and then accuse them of trolling.  You throw around this strawman nonsense, implying that we "insist AD&D can't be played RAW," when no one is saying that (I certainly don't have any trouble with it, I don't softball my games, the dice roll in front of the screen, and my players' characters are actually progressing) and you don't understand the rules very well yourself.  Moreover, you cling to this notion of RAW that ignores the actual rules in the book - specifically that the rules are guidelines, don't cover every subject, and that it's the DM's job to make the game his own.  Those ARE the rules of AD&D, as written.  What you're doing is... something else, entirely.

Quote from: jeff37923;626110You do understand that I am trolling Blackhand over his inflexibility as a GM, right?

Fair enough.

Quote from: Captain Video;626224Imperator, I want to thank you for attempting to bring things back on track.

You are welcome It's great to see a player so psyched about the game, hope you keep enjoying it

Quote1. It is not Blackhands place to restrict our alignment. We (the players) should have been policing this ourselves the whole time. If we had been more diligent in this regard, we might have pissed off the players who generated evil characters, but we wouldnt be at this motivation impasse. Any good aligned character who saw what was going on in the temple should feel motivated to destroy that abomination.

Yeah, I don't think it's the GM place to police that once everyone is clear on the adventure they are playing.

Quote4. To those of you who dont seem to get it, the campaign has not failed. It does require a little restructuring. All of our previosu characters deaths on reinforce the need to destroy the Temple. I think its a delightful prelude to whats to come. Think of it basically two or three adventuring partys have went down and more or less not come up. (Or ran out figuratively and in some cases  literally screaming). Something must be done, word has tralvelled to the Dyvers and Greyhawk city. Something evil has stirred, foul references to Iuz, Lolth, and of course the enigmatic Elemental Eye have been seen. What a great opening for a group of dedicated defenders of good, to show up and destroy this temple once and for all.

Certainly, in my Cthulhu games a TPK or near TPK has never demotivated my players.