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Backers pissed at James M. and Dwimmermount

Started by Benoist, September 13, 2012, 01:53:12 PM

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JRT

QuoteHe didn't say it himself, and as you mention, he was actually laughing at the idea publicly, through his blog and G+. It's a fact, nonetheless, that his blog was a center of attention of Das OSR,

I am not absolving James of criticism, nor defending the Dwimmermount situation.  

I was specifically addressing the fact that some people feel his success as a blog wasn't "deserved", for whatever reason.  While everybody has an opinion, I think the fact that he has or had a strong following is proof that enough people were interested.  If supposedly more deserving bloggers didn't get enough attention, that's the breaks of how the vox populi work.
Just some background on myself

http://www.clashofechoes.com/jrt-interview/

Cadriel

Quote from: JRT;624910I am not absolving James of criticism, nor defending the Dwimmermount situation.  

I was specifically addressing the fact that some people feel his success as a blog wasn't "deserved", for whatever reason.  While everybody has an opinion, I think the fact that he has or had a strong following is proof that enough people were interested.  If supposedly more deserving bloggers didn't get enough attention, that's the breaks of how the vox populi work.
If this is addressed to me, I think James's reputation as part of the OSR is something that was undeserved, not the relative success of Grognardia. He very carefully built himself up as a "voice" of the old school gaming community, and put forward a very narrow, purist, and vanilla subset of that community's ideas (very much reflected in the Dwimmermount draft) as "the real thing." James's fall from that stature is welcome because it removes a voice that I don't think was a healthy part of that community and opens the ground up for more diverse voices.

I do object, strongly, to Settembrini's moralistic judgments of Maliszewski. Failing to release "Petty Gods" despite people doing the work for him is just fucked, as is the way he's acted towards Dwimmermount, But the need to catalog a guy's personal life and pontificate about it is bullshit.

misterguignol

Quote from: Cadriel;624917But the need to catalog a guy's personal life and pontificate about it is bullshit.

Welcome to theRPGSite!

EOTB

Quote from: JRT;624910I am not absolving James of criticism, nor defending the Dwimmermount situation.  

I was specifically addressing the fact that some people feel his success as a blog wasn't "deserved", for whatever reason.  While everybody has an opinion, I think the fact that he has or had a strong following is proof that enough people were interested.  If supposedly more deserving bloggers didn't get enough attention, that's the breaks of how the vox populi work.

James had his fans, and those people generally liked everything he put out.

I am familiar with many criticisms of James, but none that he didn't "deserve" his following.  I think you might be misinterpreting a belief in some quarters that his observations were not as calorie-dense as many touted them to be.
A framework for generating local politics

https://mewe.com/join/osric A MeWe OSRIC group - find an online game; share a monster, class, or spell; give input on what you\'d like for new OSRIC products.  Just don\'t 1) talk religion/politics, or 2) be a Richard

Elfdart

Quote from: Settembrini;624888What kind of man is this?
 
1) Sends his wife into the world to provide for him
2) Does not provide for his kids materially
3) Spends a lot of time online with his hobby  while his wife is working to
 provide for him and the family
4) Did not serve
5) Wrote for White Wolf
6) Made nothing material out of his education (once pursued a Ph D in analytical philosophy)
7) Born in Bawlmore
8) Fled to Canada
9) Claimed 50k on his online hobby bona fides
10) Has wee-wee in his eyes because his 70+ father might die before he does?
11) Wrote boring essays on old hobby mags while the kids were in school an the wife earning money for him?

After reading this post of yours, I've come to the conclusion that you are about as useful as a cock-flavored lollipop. Fuck off.
Jesus Fucking Christ, is this guy honestly that goddamned stupid? He can\'t understand the plot of a Star Wars film? We\'re not talking about "Rashomon" here, for fuck\'s sake. The plot is as linear as they come. If anything, the film tries too hard to fill in all the gaps. This guy must be a flaming retard.  --Mike Wong on Red Letter Moron\'s review of The Phantom Menace

crkrueger

Quote from: amacris;624859(Also, just to correct a mis-perception, our contract specifies that in exchange for the Kickstarter funds, James assumes the obligations of the Kickstarter. It's not the case that we gave him the assets without the liabilities.)

Good to know, however did you check to see if that's worth anything considering this case would be international?
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

Spinachcat

I am not fan of Grogtardia, but "hasn't delivered yet" isn't the same as "not gonna deliver."

I don't like the guy's style at all, but if he really has health issues and a dying parent, I have to give him the benefit of the doubt for at least another six months past his previous deadline.

He does owe his backers some communication. Even a "you will get DwimmerSuck in December 2014. Toodles!" is better than silence.


Quote from: estar;624128What I am doing is going to help Tavis and Autarch salvage some of what owed by drawing some maps they can use for their second kickstarter to get the dry erase maps and tracker out.

That is very cool of you. Kudos!


Quote from: Cadriel;624234I think it's better for the old school community in the long run not to have Grognardia as some sort of gatekeeper or "blog of record" or whatever it was that James's blog was acting as.

True.


Quote from: CRKrueger;624946Good to know, however did you check to see if that's worth anything considering this case would be international?

There is no case. Its just 50k which in legal circles is called no money. Add another zero before it even slightly begins to matter.

I've sat through civil cases where $100k was dismissed for $5k being returned due to bankruptcy, illness, bad business climate, dog ate our company, etc. Unless Jimbo has liquid assets, good freaking luck.

Kickstarter isn't a store. It's a patronage site. It's angel investing. You throw your money into the ring and hope you are betting on the right horse. Sometime your bets turn out fine...and sometimes they don't.

crkrueger

Quote from: Spinachcat;625009There is no case. Its just 50k which in legal circles is called no money. Add another zero before it even slightly begins to matter.

I've sat through civil cases where $100k was dismissed for $5k being returned due to bankruptcy, illness, bad business climate, dog ate our company, etc. Unless Jimbo has liquid assets, good freaking luck.

People get sued for less then 50k every day, of course you're not gonna get some professional Class Action outfit swooping in, but people go to court every day for less than that.

Quote from: Spinachcat;625009isn't a store. It's a patronage site. It's angel investing. You throw your money into the ring and hope you are betting on the right horse. Sometime your bets turn out fine...and sometimes they don't.
Not that I don't agree with you in theory, but I also know that what you or I think Kickstarter is doesn't matter.  What Kickstarter thinks it is doesn't matter either.  What matters in the end, is whatever Court a case lands in eventually says about it.
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

Melan

Quote from: amacris;624887So my life lesson here is never, ever, ever, ever be involved in a Kickstarter I can't *personally* fulfill.
That's a decent lesson.

On the author's side, there is another one about personal responsibility and having at least a draft manuscript before getting into seeking financing. James isn't even the first offender here - Rob Kuntz has screwed so many publishers and business partners I have lost count (although it helps his stuff is actually vivid and imaginative - if often deeply flawed), and other noted authors have also failed to deliver time and again. It seems to me that this risk should never be dismissed in hobby publishing, and companies should build appropriate safeguards into their contracts.
Now with a Zine!
ⓘ This post is disputed by official sources

Exploderwizard

Quote from: Settembrini;624888What kind of man is this?
 
5) Wrote for White Wolf


Everything else can be forgiven but THIS!!! :rotfl:
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

Ghost Whistler

Quote from: Melan;625027That's a decent lesson.

On the author's side, there is another one about personal responsibility and having at least a draft manuscript before getting into seeking financing. James isn't even the first offender here - Rob Kuntz has screwed so many publishers and business partners I have lost count (although it helps his stuff is actually vivid and imaginative - if often deeply flawed), and other noted authors have also failed to deliver time and again.
prophetic!
"Ghost Whistler" is rated PG-13 (Parents strongly cautioned). Parental death, alien battles and annihilated worlds.

Settembrini

I wish to apologize for all Baltimorians. I was not implying that would be anyhting bad!

I just made a list of what FACTS we know.

Re guy who said sth about usefulness and lollipops:

As it happens there are a sufficient amount of people who enjoy the taste of my dick.
So such a lollipo might not be useless at all.

On a more general note, homophobia as seen (what is up with the kent-hate?) on YDIS is sickening to me.

Why is it more damnable to suck cocks compared to a moocher sitting at home writing pompous stuff about D&D while the rest of the family is doing their duty?

As antiquated as it sounds but this is were I see manliness: do your duty towards your dependents. And as it seems, Jamal does not do this. This puts him firmly into the kind of people I lack sympathy or respect for.

I don't care if you suck feet, cock or your thumb. You are a man if you care for your dependents. By Jamals behaviour of a bored teenager pursueing his dream of RPG stardom on the purse and time of his family...he even endangers their well-being by piling up debt now!

From now on, we might have to do the responsible thing and think about his family, help them stay clean of that mess. With just one earner, a 50k debt can break your neck.
If there can\'t be a TPK against the will of the players it\'s not an RPG.- Pierce Inverarity

estar

So Sett, what are you gaining by posting all this information about James? Do you think we are benighted idiots awaiting to illuminated by your wisdom? Or do you have a need to participate in gossip?

In general it is a good thing to offer warnings and concerns. But at some point is becomes what we call in English,

Beating a dead horse.

Settembrini

I just summarized what we learned from this thread.

It is also vital to the central question:

Where is the money?
If there can\'t be a TPK against the will of the players it\'s not an RPG.- Pierce Inverarity

amacris

Quote from: Melan;625027That's a decent lesson.

On the author's side, there is another one about personal responsibility and having at least a draft manuscript before getting into seeking financing. James isn't even the first offender here - Rob Kuntz has screwed so many publishers and business partners I have lost count (although it helps his stuff is actually vivid and imaginative - if often deeply flawed), and other noted authors have also failed to deliver time and again. It seems to me that this risk should never be dismissed in hobby publishing, and companies should build appropriate safeguards into their contracts.

Sage advice. I certainly will!