They may actually complete the project with the KS funding, but I have no confidence that this project is going to be sustainable. I've heard too many stories about MMOs failing (from listening to various video game insider podcasts over the last couple of years).

Of course, I have no personal experience working on video games - and I wrongly predicted that the 'collectable' D&D miniatures line launch would be rejected by gamers - so take that as you will...

Quote from: Monkey Boy;618224I don't understand why a big part of me wanted to see this fail.

Perhaps its my fear that Paizo see mmo's as the future and the mmo will become the flagship #1 priority at the rpg lines expense. Perhaps it's the shake down of their audience as Dancey rattles the tin to fund something that is unlikely to appear for years if at all. Or maybe its tall poppy syndrome, the innate desire of Australians to see successful people fail.

I can't work it out, it seems almost irrational. Did anyone else hope this would fail?

yep, i was hoping it would tank, too.  mostly because i think dancey's an annoying overblown prick, though.

ID Tech 5 is not currently available, I'll look at it if it is ever open sourced.

I think the subscription model and the existing customer base will make this a sustainable MMO if the the game world is properly balanced to ensure continued play.

With Eve their was a problem where the "old guard" factions horks up so much territory that new players have trouble establishing a permanent base of operations.

Quote from: GameDaddy;618552ID Tech 5 is not currently available

Have you asked ID?

They may not advertise the fact, and they may even say no, but one thing I've always observed from ID is that they are reasonable and open to suggestions, and their code is razor sharp, which is important to me as dealing with unclear code causes me a lot of lost time and suffering.

Quote from: GameDaddy;618552I think the subscription model and the existing customer base will make this a sustainable MMO if the the game world is properly balanced to ensure continued play.

This is something I don't think they can do with their current design. They seem to be relying a LOT of task specialization. Also, there's a reason Guild Wars got rid of dedicated healers.

Quote from: GameDaddy;618552With Eve their was a problem where the "old guard" factions horks up so much territory that new players have trouble establishing a permanent base of operations.

Hmm, EVE Onland...

I'm concerned that the Pathfinder MMO Kickstarter will create its own 'Old Guard' consisting of the people who pledged, which in a way is fair, but it would be far better if that privilege was earned in game or available to all for a fee rather than to a select few who got in on the ground floor. I mean you are trying to build a community here, and starting with a group of elites may not be the best way to do that.

I heard the Goon Squad is planning to curbstomp the MMO if they allow open world PvP, just to fuck with Dancey.  The guild running around killing everyone in the first few days of release would be pretty funny actually.

Quote from: CRKrueger;618820I heard the Goon Squad is planning to curbstomp the MMO if they allow open world PvP, just to fuck with Dancey.  The guild running around killing everyone in the first few days of release would be pretty funny actually.

Did Dancey kill a puppy or something? Why are they so angry at him?

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;618824Did Dancey kill a puppy or something? Why are they so angry at him?

OGL & Pathfinder.

They won't need goons for that, since any MMORPG with unregulated PvP will attract player killers by the hundreds. It is a fine tradition starting with the grand-daddy of them all, Ultima Online, which was reduced to the digital equivalent of Mogadishu within weeks of the grand opening ceremony, populated by roving bands of murderers who would kill and strip naked all newbies they came across. Then the monetary system collapsed due to runaway crafting and a badly designed economic model, followed by uncontrollable urban sprawl which littered the continent with the bare shells of abandoned player-built real estate. And that was the point where UO started to become beautiful.

Quote from: Melan;618833TAnd that was the point where UO started to become beautiful.

How so? Because it sounds like a trainwreck by today's standards.

Quote from: One Horse Town;618825OGL & Pathfinder.

Yep, apparently these two things killed rpgnet's precious 4th edition instead of its innate shitness.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;618785I'm concerned that the Pathfinder MMO Kickstarter will create its own 'Old Guard' consisting of the people who pledged, which in a way is fair, but it would be far better if that privilege was earned in game or available to all for a fee rather than to a select few who got in on the ground floor. I mean you are trying to build a community here, and starting with a group of elites may not be the best way to do that.

Well, from what I have gathered, they'll indeed have an early advantage, at least when it comes to the core territories that already have built strongholds and settlements.

One aspect that Ryan emphasized when we were discussing it though, was the exploration, crafting, and settlement aspect. They are planning on making it big enough, so that small groups and factions can break away from established nation/states and build a formidable stronghold or culture way out in the wilderness before contact with any other group. I kind of really want to see (and be a part of) this as it plays out. I already have a small guild ready to go, It'll be my peeps from the Oblivion MMO. We either want to make or take a stronghold, and see how it goes.

Quote from: Melan;618833They won't need goons for that, since any MMORPG with unregulated PvP will attract player killers by the hundreds. It is a fine tradition starting with the grand-daddy of them all, Ultima Online, which was reduced to the digital equivalent of Mogadishu within weeks of the grand opening ceremony, populated by roving bands of murderers who would kill and strip naked all newbies they came across. Then the monetary system collapsed due to runaway crafting and a badly designed economic model, followed by uncontrollable urban sprawl which littered the continent with the bare shells of abandoned player-built real estate. And that was the point where UO started to become beautiful.

Although I was trampled by those wargs, there was an excitement to UO back then that I've found lacking in any other MMO.

Quote from: GameDaddy;618902Well, from what I have gathered, they'll indeed have an early advantage, at least when it comes to the core territories that already have built strongholds and settlements.

One aspect that Ryan emphasized when we were discussing it though, was the exploration, crafting, and settlement aspect. They are planning on making it big enough, so that small groups and factions can break away from established nation/states and build a formidable stronghold or culture way out in the wilderness before contact with any other group. I kind of really want to see (and be a part of) this as it plays out. I already have a small guild ready to go, It'll be my peeps from the Oblivion MMO. We either want to make or take a stronghold, and see how it goes.

Dancey's got the dream that any game designer since UO has gotten, but anyone who has tried it, fails.  Well, ok, I guess Darkfall did pretty good.  Other games have had success with Realm vs. Realm (RvR) the best one of those, DAoC influenced WoW and WAR.

The problem with open world pvp and player made towns is, once people know what time zone most of your guild is in, they're gonna jack you at 4am.  You can't have a player only run world, there has to be NPCs who keep things going when players aren't there.  Otherwise, you get Mogadishu, because no one will ever be able to stay on long enough to establish true law.

Quote from: Planet Algol;618920Although I was trampled by those wargs, there was an excitement to UO back then that I've found lacking in any other MMO.

In UO people role-played, end of the story.

I played Valeria, a vapid wizardress (in those innocent times a female character for sure was played by a female). I was also a rake: became "best friend" with our guild leader and i was daily showered with gold and spell reagents without lifting a finger.

I introduced a female friend of mine to the game with the words "Chauvinism my ass. I was sure some ideas of mine about the female gender were anything but born by nerdrage". She called me "a shameful bitch" - and, of course, in a week time, she was already settled with her sugar daddy (which I managed to milk a bit, too, miffing ner to no end). Later she opened a brothel. I'll leave the details out (except for the screamsheet: "100% female players guarandeed. No bearded truckers".

UO was the only time where I was involved in a bank robbery. A bunch of guys entered, evoked demons from hell against the guards, killed and depredated everybody, and were out of the city in maybe three minutes. It was the heist in "Heat" UO style.

UO was a game where you could take a walk with your friends in a peaceful part of the kingdom, set up a scene from Shakespeare on a city plaza and get money from it (I applauded, not my character), and even fall in love and have virtual sex (I never did it, but some couples "married", bought a house and stuff.

I was once attacked by player killers and robbed. I spent two whole weeks just practicing a mind control spell, and when I was attacked again I made the PKs fight and kill each others. I then depredated them of all their possessions - much more than what I had lost. I had an hard on for a month. This was before the famous "An attack on one of us is an attack on ALL of us!" guild declarations, and the following civil wars.

When UO was officially published in Italy, I and my friend did a free "book" for my magazine about our adventures, illustrated with some of the best artists I was in contact with. EA later personally called me to say thank you because the UO sales in Italy spiked overnight. The various chapters were not bylined, and to this day my friend is still pissed by how EVERYBODY assumed how the "How to survive as a rake" chapter was written by her.

Two years ago (you read it right) out of curiosity I connected to the remaining UO servers. My account was still active, and my wizardress was waiting for me in her favourite tavern room in Moonglow. She had waited for me for 10 years.

It was one of the most emotional moments a videogame gave me, ever. Then I checked my equipment, and discovered how, as the last existing member of my guild, I had inherited everything. I went to the bank and... Do you remember that scene in "The Bourne Identity" when Bourne goes to the bank in Switzerland and opens the safe box? Same thing: I had inherited houses, CASTLES, weapons, armors, reagents, millions of gold coins...

I closed the safe box, retuned to the tavern and logged out. I know she is there.

No other MMORPG was like UO. NONE. It opened a genre, became its pinnacle, and that way of playing died with it.

Quote from: The Butcher;618842How so? Because it sounds like a trainwreck by today's standards.

Precisely, but it is when you get off the rails when it is no longer a colour-within-the-lines engineered experience, but a world of unpredictability and hundreds of possibilities. Really: the players engineered a virtual economic collapse, fucked up the faux-renfaire world of Britannia beyond recognition (also, someone killed Lord British within the first few days and got his ass banned), and built themselves a perfectly cool post-apocalyptic game world where things could happen because the players wanted it to. That's a lot more interesting to me than going on raids and questlines that have all been planned for you. Granted, it must have sucked royally for the folks who expected the "Hail to thee, noble Friend!" style of the Ultima series, or just wanted to fuck around baking virtual bread.

Quote from: ReckallStuff

I bow before thine Exploits, noble Friend!

See, that's how it is done.