Quote from: RPGPundit;613570For the record, I agree to keep this in the Main Forum, as long as the main topic of conversation is the effect of the MMO on the RPG hobby, and not specifically talking about the computer game itself.

RPGPundit

That's my hope. If it goes the other way, I'm all for moving it.

Stretch goals that are RPG related:

A Pathfinder Society one-use magic item PDF;
Emerald Spire RPG PDF (a superdungeon);
Flip-Mat Multi-Pack in print and PDF;
WizKids Pathfinder Battles Miniatures;
An RPG Print Pack (hardcover print edition of the Emerald Spire Superdungeon, featuring an exclusive cover available only to Kickstarter backers; a print edition of the Emerald Spire Dungeons Flip-Mat Multi-Pack; a print edition of the Pathfinder Tales novel The Crusader Road; and an Emerald Spire Campaign Cards game accessory);
PDF Superpack (42 RPG products from 29 different publishers);
5 Guests for a 5 hour Pathfinder RPG game session with a celebrity DM;

I'd say a fair chunk of this Kickstarter, which is supposed to be about a MMO, is really about the Pathfinder RPG.  A ton of questions involve getting just the non-MMO materials, a ton of the FAQ involves those items as well, and a lot of the discussion comments are people investing just for the RPG material and to "support the RPG company", with no or tepid interest in the MMO.

From a legal perspective (if anyone cares), I'd say Paizo has quite clearly pierced the corporate veil that the separate Goblinworks company could have provided.  It's, essentially, the same company. I'm not sure they care about that issue, but I thought it worth mentioning.

Quote from: Zachary The First;613080I also wonder if they sort of milked their folks dry with this previous Kickstarter.

Which is part of the problem of overfunding.  People say "Dude, you got an extra quarter million from the Tech Demo, roll that shit over into the actual game, instead of hookers and blow."

I think KS needs to have some defined Overfunding policies.

If life were Shadowrun, Dancey would be doing this purposely to sink Paizo, after which he would walk into a VP slot at WotC.

Unless it makes Paizo a new Evil Empire or sinks it totally, I'm not sure of the impact on TTRPGs, but I can easily imagine transmedia crap like "Purchase the new MMO expansion, get exclusive Paizo maps/cards/whatever you can't get anywhere else."  Probably the reverse will happen.  Get the MMO audience, which I assume they are counting on to be bigger, to buy Pathfinder stuff and use that as MMO reference.  Yeah the rules don't matter, but maps, quest hints, etc. might be in there, plus "Buy the new Pathfinder Adventure Path, get these items/mounts/houses in the MMO."  Heck, at this point the people at Paizo just might realize they can't run the splatmill forever and want to monetize the fuck out of this thing so they can fund their retirement, kid's college, mortgage, etc.

Quote from: Mistwell;613594I'd say a fair chunk of this Kickstarter, which is supposed to be about a MMO, is really about the Pathfinder RPG.  A ton of questions involve getting just the non-MMO materials, a ton of the FAQ involves those items as well, and a lot of the discussion comments are people investing just for the RPG material and to "support the RPG company", with no or tepid interest in the MMO.

From a legal perspective (if anyone cares), I'd say Paizo has quite clearly pierced the corporate veil that the separate Goblinworks company could have provided.  It's, essentially, the same company. I'm not sure they care about that issue, but I thought it worth mentioning.

Pretty interesting that people would fund an MMO to support an RPG company. If I wanted to support a tabletop gaming company, I don't know that I'd get involved in an MMO to do it--I'd just try to buy TTRPG product I wanted, and get other people into the RPG.

Unless, of course, they just mean support financially.

Quote from: CRKrueger;613596Which is part of the problem of overfunding.  People say "Dude, you got an extra quarter million from the Tech Demo, roll that shit over into the actual game, instead of hookers and blow."

I think KS needs to have some defined Overfunding policies.

If life were Shadowrun, Dancey would be doing this purposely to sink Paizo, after which he would walk into a VP slot at WotC.

From the Kickstarter FAQ:

QuoteWhat happened to the $300K you got last time?
-We used the proceeds of the Pathfinder Online Technology Demo to build the Technology Demo and to develop the Thornkeep book, and to pay for the production and fulfillment of the rewards we offered in our first Kickstarter.

So, for a $50k Kickstarter, they fund it to $300k (about 600%), and spend it all on the demo and rewards? Were there a few trips to Vegas in there somewhere?

They raised $300+k for the tech demo when they asked for $50k and then what they made looks like a $50k tech demo.  So, what happened to the rest of the money? They were never clear about any of that.

And then they're back asking for, this time, a million dollars based on a tech demo that looks kind of shitty.

This whole product is made of fail. The MMO they want to do is going to cost WAY more than a million dollars and the tech they've shown so far is pretty lame.  Nevermind the fact that they've gone to the well too many times -- there's only so much Pathfinder MMO desire out there and clearly they've hit the limit.

Quote from: Zachary The First;613599So, for a $50k Kickstarter, they fund it to $300k (about 600%), and spend it all on the demo and rewards? Were there a few trips to Vegas in there somewhere?

Yep, it's bullshit.  They pocketed all that extra cash.  Which, good for them since people gave it to them voluntarily, but they should have put it back into the product and make that tech demo look great.

Now they're paying for their greed.

Quote from: Zachary The First;613599spend it all on the demo and rewards?

Looking at the rewards, unless the Herbfarm completes the course with the deflowering of virgins of your ethnic choice while serenaded by the Boston Philharmonic, there's about 200k in the wind.

Or maybe those T-shirts are Samite.

Was the cover of Thornkeep done by Thomas Kincaid?

Quote from: Ian Noble;613605Now they're paying for their greed.

I think they will hit their goal though.  If nothing else they will release some additional RPG material in the last week as an incentive.  Which sort of cannibalizes their core business to fund this.

I find it interesting that apparently, their MMO won't actually play like the Pathfinder RPG does.  It says that there are no Character Classes, for example... I was pretty sure the Pathfinder TRPG had character classes? Or did I dream it?

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;613787I find it interesting that apparently, their MMO won't actually play like the Pathfinder RPG does.  It says that there are no Character Classes, for example... I was pretty sure the Pathfinder TRPG had character classes? Or did I dream it?

RPGPundit

Pathfinder is 3e, so yeah, it has character classes.

Quote from: Zachary The First;613599So, for a $50k Kickstarter, they fund it to $300k (about 600%), and spend it all on the demo and rewards?

Quote from: Ian Noble;613603They raised $300+k for the tech demo when they asked for $50k and then what they made looks like a $50k tech demo.  So, what happened to the rest of the money?

Indeed.

While part of the 'extra' cash would of course need to be used to cover the additional pledge premiums, the discrepancy here is so large that I find no way to justify it.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;613812Indeed.

While part of the 'extra' cash would of course need to be used to cover the additional pledge premiums, the discrepancy here is so large that I find no way to justify it.

If it were a matter of $15k over pledge, I don't think any of us would bat an eyelash. But a quarter of a million dollars over a $50,000 goal? That's going to raise some eyebrows.

As for them making the Kickstarter, I don't know. Over $450k to go, and 12 days to do it? I'll be impressed if they do.

Quote from: Zachary The First;613816As for them making the Kickstarter, I don't know. Over $450k to go, and 12 days to do it? I'll be impressed if they do.

This is how it tracked for their Demo kickstarter:


If that pattern holds even somewhat, they probably still fund.  That's 2/3rds of their total funding in the final 8 days.  Their last post was "Kickstarter tells us that 90% of the projects that reach 30% of their funding are successful. We raised 2/3rds of the pledges for our first Kickstarter in the last 8 days, and 1/3rd of the total in the last 24 hours. We're right on track to hit our goal because most Kickstarters have a LOT of pledges that are made at the end, not the beginning or the middle."

Huh.  Guess we'll see.