You must be logged in to view and post to most topics, including Reviews, Articles, News/Adverts, and Help Desk.

GM Secrecy

Started by Ghost Whistler, November 04, 2012, 08:57:00 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Ghost Whistler

GM: "the NPC attacks you."
GM picks up dice, looks at notes and rolls. The dice produce some numbers the GM calculates the result and tells the player "you got hit, take X damage".
Meanwhile the player looks at the dice result, doesn't know what the GM's processes are nor what calculations he makes. Is this the norm? It is for me, perhaps it shouldn't be.

As a GM I find this awkward. I am arbitrating a situation with access to stats and rules, for the NPC's, the players don't have. I then tell them, their only clue is the dice result, what happened. Is that really the best way to do this? Obviously NPC's don't go around with their vitals written on their tabards, but isn't there a better way to do this?
"Ghost Whistler" is rated PG-13 (Parents strongly cautioned). Parental death, alien battles and annihilated worlds.

The Traveller

I use contested rolls for combat because it 'feels' more like combat, and as a result the players get to find out what the numerical skill of their opponents is. In-game, the characters should have a very good idea how skilled their opponent is after the first few swings are exchanged anyway, so I don't see a problem with that. Especially since damage is partially factored from how high over their opponent they roll; it could be obfuscated but you'd really be going out of your way to do so, and making life harder for everyone in the process, including yourself.
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.

noisms

I make all my dice rolls in the open, and tell my players, usually, what the monster needs to hit them. I don't usually make it explicit what the calculation is, though (e.g. "The monster has 4 HD, so it needs a 15 to hit you" or whatever).
Read my blog, Monsters and Manuals, for campaign ideas, opinionated ranting, and collected game-related miscellania.

Buy Yoon-Suin, a campaign toolbox for fantasy games, giving you the equipment necessary to run a sandbox campaign in your own Yoon-Suin - a region of high adventure shrouded in ancient mysteries, opium smoke, great luxury and opulent cruelty.

vytzka

I am rather open with the information I give the players. Like I don't really open with "ooooh you guys are up against King Statline, lube up" but I'm pretty open with attack scores, target numbers and the like. If they're curious and I'm not in a hurry I'll take time to explain what a technique someone just used on their character in Anima or a charm in Exalted does.

The exception to this is if if the true power of the antagonist is not apparent. Then I might ask for an attack roll and see if it hit myself. Of course inevitably someone will go "Missed? It's got defense WHAT?" and then if the antagonist doesn't escape I'm gradually showing my cards.

Figuratively speaking. Or... literally, if it's an Anima invoker *G*.

Ghost Whistler

Does that not slow things down, having to explain what's happening and how the PC might lose out?
"Ghost Whistler" is rated PG-13 (Parents strongly cautioned). Parental death, alien battles and annihilated worlds.

Sommerjon

I roll everything, except(depending on system) character crucial things, behind the screen.
 Character crucial things like creature critical confirmations attacks in type III D&D(I let the players roll their fate).
Quote from: One Horse TownFrankly, who gives a fuck. :idunno:

Quote from: Exploderwizard;789217Being offered only a single loot poor option for adventure is a railroad

Beedo

It's much more dramatic and exciting for the players for the DM to roll in the open and tell the players what the monsters need to hit them; I'm with Noisms.

Plus, dice fudging is the devil.  (There are already long threads here discussing that particular sin).

The only things I tend to roll semi-secretly are wandering monster checks and wilderness encounters, because there's more tension when the players don't know those particular results when they rest, make camp, etc.
Dreams in the Lich House

I don\'t commute, I hex crawl to work.

Lynn

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;597353Obviously NPC's don't go around with their vitals written on their tabards, but isn't there a better way to do this?

I make rolls out of sight. However after the first round, I let players know what they need to hit the monster (for the time being), so long as one of them hits. They always declare their rolls, and then go for damage automatically if they think they hit.

My players trust that I am not screwing them, and that I am making some calculations when I roll. Maybe they also expect I am fudging in their favor. But at the root is their trust.
Lynn Fredricks
Entrepreneurial Hat Collector

Sir Wulf

I've always felt that the characters would quickly develop a feel for just how dangerous their opponent really is, so they should see the die rolls.  "Oh crap!  That guy just slammed me with a 4! We're in trouble!"

Ghost Whistler

I absolutely agree fudging results is bad.
"Ghost Whistler" is rated PG-13 (Parents strongly cautioned). Parental death, alien battles and annihilated worlds.

Haffrung

Quote from: Lynn;597380I make rolls out of sight. However after the first round, I let players know what they need to hit the monster (for the time being), so long as one of them hits. They always declare their rolls, and then go for damage automatically if they think they hit.

My players trust that I am not screwing them, and that I am making some calculations when I roll. Maybe they also expect I am fudging in their favor. But at the root is their trust.

Same here. I like to keep players in the dark about what they're fighting and how strong it is because:

A) Their characters typically don't know. If those PCs haven't fought it before, and it's not a common creature like a goblin, they have no idea what it is, how strong it is, etc.

B) It's scarier that way. ie is that a Shadow or a Wight?
 

John Morrow

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;597353As a GM I find this awkward. I am arbitrating a situation with access to stats and rules, for the NPC's, the players don't have. I then tell them, their only clue is the dice result, what happened. Is that really the best way to do this? Obviously NPC's don't go around with their vitals written on their tabards, but isn't there a better way to do this?

I prefer to roll for anything the PCs can observe and know about in the open.  I think that letting the players compare the raw die rolls to the result, which might include factors they aren't aware of such as skill bonuses, helps replace intuitive information their characters would have, if they were really there, about how good or bad their opponent is.
Robin Laws\' Game Styles Quiz Results:
Method Actor 100%, Butt-Kicker 75%, Tactician 42%, Storyteller 33%, Power Gamer 33%, Casual Gamer 33%, Specialist 17%

Novastar

God doesn't show me his dice rolls, either.
(i.e. GM rolls secretly)
Quote from: dragoner;776244Mechanical character builds remind me of something like picking the shoe in monopoly, it isn\'t what I play rpg\'s for.

Justin Alexander

My die rolls for my regular campaign are secret only due to convenience: I use a screen to hide my notes and rolling outside of the screen would simply be inconvenient and awkward.

I general, I don't announce numbers that represent information the PCs don't have access to. I don't announce numbers like AC at the beginning of combat, but I don't consider them state secrets: Players will quickly reverse engineer them in any case (which represents their characters learning the capabilities of their opponents) and there comes a point where it's easier and quicker to confirm the target number and allow them to quickly determine success-or-failure on their own.
Note: this sig cut for personal slander and harassment by a lying tool who has been engaging in stalking me all over social media with filthy lies - RPGPundit

vytzka

While I like the idea of players only having the information their characters would have and thus hidden target numbers and so on (let alone the GM rolling for everything), in practice I find it's too much work keeping track of it. Though I suppose if someone actually asked me to not "spoil" things for them I would oblige.