Quote from: mcbobbo;586475Swamp?  Or lake?  An hour ago it was a swamp.  You used that word.  You didn't bring 'lake' into it until quite recently.

If someone tries to argue that trees don't grow in lakes either is clearly someone who has rarely left the basement, and has never left the confines of the city.

Quote from: mcbobbo;586478Hey mods, if I'm out of line with my posts, feel free to let me know.

I do feel a little bit evil at this point...

No you're cool. As long as you're not stalking people from thread to thread and forum to forum obsessively, that you're not revealing private information like their names and address or threatening them physically... you know, basic rules of how not to be a totally creepy scumbag on the internet, you can call them out on their shit and call them cunts all you want.

Quote from: Mr. GC;586434And just so you realize, any chance greater than 0% that your buff... your attempt to help the party kills them instead is unacceptably high. So it can be 30%, 20%, 10%, 5%, 1%... If you are going to kill your own party, then cast Fireball, centered on yourself and just get it over with.

I once saved a 1E party with a fireball. My wizard realized that a swarm of ghasts was about to surround, paralyze, and devour everyone.

So I cast fireball on everyone; friend and foe.

Every ghast died, and one ally was badly wounded.


Fireball friends for the win!

Quote from: StormBringer;586479What the fuck is a "blackscale lizardfolk"?  Was that in the colouring book from the 80s?

No.  It's a monster.  In a Monster Manual.  For an edition of D&D that you don't care for.  

Let me introduce you to Google.  It's a wonderful website.  If you type the words you put in quotes (blackscale lizardfolk), you can get links to websites and images that describe what you're asking about.  It's really pretty amazing.  

They even warrant a mention it that terribly unreliable source Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lizardfolk

Quote from: StormBringer;586483If someone tries to argue that trees don't grow in lakes either is clearly someone who has rarely left the basement, and has never left the confines of the city.

Maybe we're odd because we have.  I dunno.

All I (originally) tried to say, was that it didn't HAVE to be a druid or a ranger.

But then goalposts were moved.

Quote from: Bill;586489I once saved a 1E party with a fireball. My wizard realized that a swarm of ghasts was about to surround, paralyze, and devour everyone.

So I cast fireball on everyone; friend and foe.

Every ghast died, and one ally was badly wounded.


Fireball friends for the win!

That was sort of the whole point behind breaking a staff of power, no?  I think some people have a very, very hard time thinking outside the box.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;586490Let me introduce you to Google.  It's a wonderful website.  If you type the words you put in quotes (blackscale lizardfolk), you can get links to websites and images that describe what you're asking about.  It's really pretty amazing.  

Let me introduce you to http://lmgtfy.com/

If you create a link using that site you get to demonstrate the googling AND be a smartass in one go.  It is a wonderful way to save time and still be an ass.  It's really pretty amazing.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;586482Funny - you left out an important part of that quote, but I'll remind everyone what I said.

I left that out as a courtesy so you wouldn't have to be embarassed, but since you brought it up...

You have experience with most groups?  Or do most of the groups in your experience make up a few dozen people out of the millions that have played?  In other words, are you claiming that your experience approaches universal?

And how many times have I heard the refrain, 'play the game, not the rules'?  

How many people have said that they change the rules if they stand in the way of a fun game?

QuoteAre you now taking the position that the rules are sacrosanct and should be followed slavishly?  

No, I am taking the position that you should slavishly work on reading comprehension.  Your cohort extolls RAW as though it was the third tablet Moses brought down from Mt Sinai.  In order to support the very weak argument about a spell, the best that could be managed is a 20yr old archive article that made a passing remark about it.

So, do you or do you not adhere to RAW?  Or is it only a convenient tactic so you can win on the internets?  Because your whole posting history here is a body of rhetoric that only aims to score points instead of presenting a position and either defending or supporting it.

Because no one even has the joking expectation any of you will actually present solid facts or a shred of evidence to support your wild assertions.

QuoteOr are you instead agreeing that people change the rules to keep it/make it fun after 40 years?

I will agree that people play the game how they play the game, and neither their style nor RAW are the ultimate 'correct' method.  A statement I am sure you would never even consider in your desperate scramble to show everyone how cool, smart, or knowledgeable you are.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;586493That was sort of the whole point behind breaking a staff of power, no?  I think some people have a very, very hard time thinking outside the box.

Staff of the Maji (Staff of Power the same?)

Break it and blow up everything around you.
50/50 chance of the caster being killed or sent to a random plane.

Awesome!

Quote from: Bill;586489I once saved a 1E party with a fireball. My wizard realized that a swarm of ghasts was about to surround, paralyze, and devour everyone.

So I cast fireball on everyone; friend and foe.

Every ghast died, and one ally was badly wounded.


Fireball friends for the win!

Cool. See? You know that when, you know, you've actually played the game for real once.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;586493That was sort of the whole point behind breaking a staff of power, no?  I think some people have a very, very hard time thinking outside the box.

No kidding.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;586493That was sort of the whole point behind breaking a staff of power, no?  I think some people have a very, very hard time thinking outside the box.

I would like to think that fireballing the party when swarmed occurs to people all the time; it's certainly a dandy trick, and the more dice of damage your fireball does the more predictable the damage output is going to be.

Heck, if your warned your allies beforehand and they took defensive measures a nice DM might grant your allies a bonus on their saving throw too if you asked mother may I nicely.

Quote from: mcbobbo;586475/yawn

Nobody said it was a forest, skillet.  Just that there could be 'a tree'.

Since you're still going full retard, I will spell it out for you. If there is "a tree", and that tree is actually a Dryad's thing, or is actually a Treant, and you were expecting a Druid, that is still infinitely better than when you expected a Druid and got a Druid.

QuoteSwamp?  Or lake?  An hour ago it was a swamp.  You used that word.  You didn't bring 'lake' into it until quite recently.

Really if you're right it would be trivial to save yourself.  Show me where you described this lake earlier.

It's always been a swamp in a lake. Just as it's always been 50% chance to hit a 20 HP target for 20 damage in a system agnostic way... I know, grogs can't read. You should use some of those limited skill points to remove your Illiteracy.

QuoteSo now there are trees nearby?  Because an hour ago you said zero trees.

"There are trees around the lake, but that doesn't matter because the guys in the bell tower watching the lake get a clear view of everything around for a very large distance and according to several here just derping it on over and getting spotted at 500 feet sounds like a great way to play."

Never go full retard.

QuoteBecause I wasn't talking about sitelines at all.  I was talking about treants and dryads.

Ah right, those things where you are bracing for a Druid and then breathe out a sigh of relief when it turns out to be them. Yes, we've established that.

QuoteSo it'll be the Chewbacca Defense, then.  You change the topic to visibility and movement, when the topic was, originally, swamps have zero trees.  If the glove does not fit you must make me a sandwich. No, no, I get it.  I'm actually enjoying it.

See, fellas, you actually can win an argument with this guy.  Just keep him talking long enough...

The topic was originally here's how the good party deals with this situation, here is how the bad party deals with that same situation. And that means they're rowing across a lake, and might as well be holding a big sign that says shoot me. And the enemies will happily grant their request. Yeah, see that part where they get spotted at 500 feet, and take 12-13 rounds to close in? Visibility and movement mother fucker, can you grasp it? Because it's always been there, and it's bitch slapping you about. Or should you go play with your marbles?

QuoteSkillz, how well do mounts fare in a lake, exactly?  Are they giant fish?  If they are, yeah, I'd be a bit curious to see the stats you used.  Did you require custom skills to ride them?

It is a lake, now, right?  Er, um, wasn't it always?  Maybe it was a keyboard error making you type 'swamp' all along, rather than 'lake' and you simply didn't notice that

Ah, we're back to Asperger's induced reading comprehension failure. What's the matter, fucking up in new and different ways frighten you?

QuoteAnother topic shift?  Did you previously describe this swamp-lake from the beginning, as a situation that existed in actual reality, or not?  You impugned my reading comprehension, did you not?

Responding to your posts is now changing the topic?

Holy fuck you're bad at this.

QuoteWhat you just did, was move them.  With lizardmen, no less.  Just FYI.

This just in: Lizardfolk live in swamps! Gimp. Minds. Fucking. Blown.

Let me guess: You'd be surprised and offended if you went to Florida, went on the rivers, and you saw alligators because no one specifically told you you'd see alligators in Florida?

Actually, why don't you go dive in and see if there's gators yourself?

QuoteFrom where I sit you're sooooo deeply into the ropes at this point, even I'm expecting the ref to step in and do an eight count.  Your opinion of my RPG experience is very much not helping my assessment of this conversation.

Drugs are bad, mmkay?

QuoteLabels like 'swamp', 'lake', or 'tower'?

Labels like "Melee Mook", where you'd still be hard pressed to figure out what it can do, and how well it can do it. I mean holy fuck, lizardfolk live in swamps! I couldn't make this shit up if I tried.

QuoteYou're flailing at this point...

Says the person who has added absolutely nothing except oh yeah, the bad party dies about three times harder than you said, therefore... you're wrong?

Fuck, all I need is for one more person as stupid as you to try and argue with me and the real world will start physically reshaping itself to resemble the elf game world we are currently discussing, that is how well you are making my points for me.

QuoteAll I'm asking for at this point is a link to the description of the swamp-lake with lizardmen riding fish-mounts.  I can't believe I missed it, it sounds pretty imaginative...

LCD drug trips are bad, mmkay?

Quote from: StormBringer;586479What the fuck is a "blackscale lizardfolk"?  Was that in the colouring book from the 80s?

It's a Lizardfolk with Black Scales. They live in swamps. I know, that breaks your small mind. They're also a bit tougher than the normal ones but really any scenario in which you face 89 enemies at once is a scenario in which your entire party is dead before a quarter of them have taken their first action. Those enemies can be Blackscale Lizardfolks, or Awklmfmgkgks. You just look at the number of them and know you're fucked.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;586482Since I've been on these boards, I've seen a number of people insist that modifying the rules is required to enjoy the game.  In this very thread someone has indicated that changing the rules is such an inherent expectation that failure to change the rules is 'not playing as intended'.  

And how many times have I heard the refrain, 'play the game, not the rules'?  

How many people have said that they change the rules if they stand in the way of a fun game?

Are you now taking the position that the rules are sacrosanct and should be followed slavishly?  

Color me amazed!!!  

Or are you instead agreeing that people change the rules to keep it/make it fun after 40 years?

You asked an RPGsiter to make a coherent and consistent point, rather than be hypocritical and shift stances faster than a political candidate this time of year. Don't hold your breath on that one.

Quote from: Bill;586489I once saved a 1E party with a fireball. My wizard realized that a swarm of ghasts was about to surround, paralyze, and devour everyone.

So I cast fireball on everyone; friend and foe.

Every ghast died, and one ally was badly wounded.


Fireball friends for the win!

...

Let's get real here.

Lord Mistborn just realized the point I was getting at.

You didn't.

I'd like you to take a moment and think about that.

Quote from: mcbobbo;586492Maybe we're odd because we have.  I dunno.

All I (originally) tried to say, was that it didn't HAVE to be a druid or a ranger.

But then goalposts were moved.

My comment about Rangers was "listing them as a threat would be dishonest, because they are not".

The same logic can easily extend to Dryads and Treants if you really want to go there.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;586493That was sort of the whole point behind breaking a staff of power, no?  I think some people have a very, very hard time thinking outside the box.

Yes yes, more random death... Here is what you are missing:

You only did that shit if you didn't know any better.

Otherwise you say "Hahaha game, you thought you could get me with your DELICIOUS FRUIT? Not a chance!"

Actually scratch that. IWBTG mercilessly fucks with the player, but it's honest. Once you know a given fruit falls up it always does. It doesn't sometimes fly sideways just to screw with you more. Comparing it to older editions is too cruel to IWBTG.

Now that we've confirmed I'm not on your ignore list...

Do you always drive the speed limit, exactly, whenever someone is in your car.  And if no, why not?

It's not that difficult of a question.

:rotfl:

Rollerskates, pudding, flying saucers, mangoes, red skirts, eyelash, poo poo! farley's rusks, rhino horn, gaffer tape, Deep Purple, leprosy, alloys, ming vases, tb, free tumbler with every purchase, crotchless panties, flossing, Aim High Shoot Low.

For those of you who are so very invested in 'winning' this thread, that's what it looks like to the rest of us.

Quote from: Mr. GC;586506Let's get real here.

Lord Mistborn just realized the point I was getting at.

You didn't.

I'd like you to take a moment and think about that.

:rotfl:

Oh, I have.  And to be honest, it doesn't exactly help your position.