Quote from: Exploderwizard;586242Damn. You kill PLAYERS! Thats fucking hardcore man. :rotfl:

Like an OSR version of Dexter

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;586234Regarding autism or aspergers insults I have consistently said I dislike them. I dont think most peopple who throw the words around are trying to be malicious but I believe for people living with autism or who have autistic family members that kind of name calling is hurtful.

Speaking for myself, having a child with the condition, I'm used to it.  The normal person has no idea - read: no fucking clue - how deep the rabbit hole goes with this disorder.  And they genuinely never will.  And thank God for that, for their sakes.  So when people throw it around like an insult it just reads to me as self-labeling as an ignorant, ungrateful 'normal'.

Anyway, Brendan, don't fall for the trap of 'defending the board'.  If the complaint is genuinely an issue, let them challenge the comments as they are made, in context.  Or they can post elsewhere.  It's a big internet, there's lots of elsewhere.

To me it screams "I feel like an outsider" every time I see this complaint made, and when someone like you chimes in with a defense, it just spins off more whining and denial.

If you really feel like an outsider, I'd encourage you to try the normally accepted social methods of changing it.  Like, you know, conversation.

Quote from: jibbajibba;586243Like an OSR version of Dexter

Exaclty like Dexter. You don't know the woe and pain of having Bill as a GM. He even has a houserule that if you fail a system shock roll from polymorph or other magical effects, you must actually die (as a courtesy we are allowed to choose how). That is why I was so adamant in the debate with Mr. CG about Haste. It is literally a matter of life and death for me.

Quote from: Bill;586237I encourage roleplay. It's when a player does not roleplay, and metagames excessively that I kill them off. Not immediately; I am quite forgiving.

Wow and they call me an asshole DM.

So if you don't let players MTP their way to victory and make the mosters act like MOBs you're an asshole DM, but it's fine to kill off characters who make the people who are gimps feel small in the pants. That's some serious basketweaver entitlement you're spouting off there. I thought this forum was against player entitlement.

"I have repeatedly shown I know more about older editions than any of you."

"Really?  Here's something where you were objectively wrong.  And here's another.  And yet another.  Oh, and here's another.  Really, it seems like you just google'd 'haste' off of WoTCs board, because everything else you've said is objectively incorrect about older editions. "


1 hour later

"I have repeatedly shown I know more about older editions than any of you."




:idunno:

Look folks, at this point it's futile.  No wonder why they like to go into threads and say, "I win all of these discussions."  I imagine it's easy to think you're winning when you completely ignore all the actual factual data points that have proven you wrong.  It's sort of like arguing with the person who thinks the world is flat or that evolution is a myth.  Eventually you just have to shake your head and ignore them.

Quote from: Lord Mistborn;586247Wow and they call me an asshole DM.

So if you don't let players MTP their way to victory and make the mosters act like MOBs you're an asshole DM, but it's fine to kill off characters who make the people who are gimps feel small in the pants. That's some serious basketweaver entitlement you're spouting off there. I thought this forum was against player entitlement.

:rolleyes:

What does the "RP" in "RPG" stand for?   If someone doesn't want to role-play at all, in an RPG, then they can go play a different game that's more fitting to their tastes.  If someone wants to play monopoly but refuses to buy any properties, I'm gonna tell them to leave and stop playing monopoly.

Quote from: mcbobbo;586244Speaking for myself, having a child with the condition, I'm used to it.  The normal person has no idea - read: no fucking clue - how deep the rabbit hole goes with this disorder.  And they genuinely never will.  And thank God for that, for their sakes.  So when people throw it around like an insult it just reads to me as self-labeling as an ignorant, ungrateful 'normal'.

Anyway, Brendan, don't fall for the trap of 'defending the board'.  If the complaint is genuinely an issue, let them challenge the comments as they are made, in context.  Or they can post elsewhere.  It's a big internet, there's lots of elsewhere.

To me it screams "I feel like an outsider" every time I see this complaint made, and when someone like you chimes in with a defense, it just spins off more whining and denial.

If you really feel like an outsider, I'd encourage you to try the normally accepted social methods of changing it.  Like, you know, conversation.

It's a separate topic but the board has become really closed off recently.
Most of the posts with a lot of hits are basically defences of Old School D&D. And despite Pundit's efforts to shill his own stuff it is begining to look like just another OSR forum.

Some of the "Denners" have quite logical arguments that deserve to be engaged with in conversation but name calling and various other immature ways of shutting everything down have become the norm. And the constant warring as noted in this very thread is just a bit pointless as there is no desire to find common ground.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;586248Eventually you just have to shake your head and ignore them.

That's what the rest of us had been doing before you started this useless shitfest.

Quote from: jibbajibba;586250Some of the "Denners" have quite logical arguments that deserve to be engaged with in conversation but name calling and various other immature ways of shutting everything down have become the norm. And the constant warring as noted in this very thread is just a bit pointless as there is no desire to find common ground.

they have every right to post here if they want. And some of us have made efforts to engage in rational conversations. But there is vitriol on both sides and a lot of my own efforts to be reasonable have been met with mindless insults. This is a two way street. If denners want to be taken seriously, they would do well nt to strut around expecting to be recieved as super geniuses as they insult play styles and posters. We on the other hand would be better off if we read what they had to say and responded intelligently when appropriate (walls of text thiugh will get us nowhere), rather than name call or dismiss. My issue with the denners so far isn't their playstyle (as i said before i ran an optimized 3E campaign for years and had great fun because i adapt to my players), but their dissmisive attitude toward people who play older editions, have different balance / play expectations, or are less concerned about RAW. It is somewhat self defeating to be dismisive of the dener playstyle as well.

I think if the denners can become productive posters here it will be beneficial to the forum. My concern is too many of these threads are obsessing with the same basic topic (essentially they become clashes between the "dener" gaming philosophy and "therpgsite" gaming philosophy). These sorts of threads become so negative they are impossible to enjoy. I would much rather see respectful discussions where people exchange ideas rather than pummel one another with rhetoric (passion and wit are fine, but if people are just screaming at each other that isn't a discussion).

In terms of the forum being too OSR. I think its good that there a home here for that, but would personally love to see more diverse topics as well. The solution is to start interesting threads on non-osr games. Those are of interest to me, so i know i will post on them.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;586252they have every right to post here if they want. And some of us have made efforts to engage in rational conversations. But there is vitriol on both sides and a lot of my own efforts to be reasonable have been met with mindless insults. This is a two way street. If denners want to be taken seriously, they would do well nt to strut around expecting to be recieved as super geniuses as they insult play styles and posters. We on the other hand would be better off if we read what they had to say and responded intelligently when appropriate (walls of text thiugh will get us nowhere), rather than name call or dismiss. My issue with the denners so far isn't their playstyle (as i said before i ran an optimized 3E campaign for years and had great fun because i adapt to my players), but their dissmisive attitude toward people who play older editions, have different balance / play expectations, or are less concerned about RAW. It is somewhat self defeating to be dismisive of the dener playstyle as well.

I think if the denners can become productive posters here it will be beneficial to the forum. My concern is too many of these threads are obsessing with the same basic topic (essentially they become clashes between the "dener" gaming philosophy and "therpgsite" gaming philosophy). These sorts of threads become so negative they are impossible to enjoy. I would much rather see respectful discussions where people exchange ideas rather than pummel one another with rhetoric (passion and wit are fine, but if people are just screaming at each other that isn't a discussion).

In terms of the forum being too OSR. I think its good that there a home here for that, but would personally love to see more diverse topics as well. The solution is to start interesting threads on non-osr games. Those are of interest to me, so i know i will post on them.

don't get me wrong Brendan I thimk you come out of the discussions very well.
I took like discussion backed up with thought.

ON the topic of playstyles I think that the emergence of a 'therpgsite' playstyle is probably a shame. the strength of the site, outside wild hyperbole on story games, was that all playstyles were welcome.

On the topic of other threads they do emerge and in terms of number of threads the Denner vs OSR probably only get 30% but in terms of posts they get 80%. So a thread about Super hero play might get 30 posts but a post on Why are wizards rubbish in D&D will get 300. But its the general threads that often become focus of the debate. So a thread on balance rarely touches Warfare versus Strength in Amber or the benefits of certain edges in SW and quickly settles down to why 1e D&D is the best game ever or why 3e fighters need more shit.

Quote from: CRKrueger;586251That's what the rest of us had been doing before you started this useless shitfest.

I started a rant about individual players feeling like they need to compete and win against other players.  That had nothing to do with edition or class v class, but a personality defect of an individual.   You can't blame me for them coming in and turning into yet another fvw thread.  Hell, LM even admitted that's what he does, over and over.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;586252This is a two way street. If denners want to be taken seriously, they would do well nt to strut around expecting to be recieved as super geniuses as they insult play styles and posters. We on the other hand would be better off if we read what they had to say and responded intelligently when appropriate (walls of text thiugh will get us nowhere), rather than name call or dismiss.

This.

In fact, I'd wager that in any situation where you're entering a new peer group, strutting isn't the way to make friends.  They seem to only rise to fight, and in that way I do feel the 'invasion' label sticks.

Now, that might possibly be in response to bad treatment, but there have certainly been follow-up actions that validate that treatment.

Reflect away, for sure.  It's good.

But 'defend the board' is a trap.  It isn't meant to be conversation as it isn't possible.  Strawman by projection, if you will.

Quote from: Lord Mistborn;586247Wow and they call me an asshole DM.

So if you don't let players MTP their way to victory and make the mosters act like MOBs you're an asshole DM, but it's fine to kill off characters who make the people who are gimps feel small in the pants. That's some serious basketweaver entitlement you're spouting off there. I thought this forum was against player entitlement.

Your example does not apply to my games at all.

I have players that are powergamers and roleplay.

Also, my players love my games, and that, is all that matters. Player enjoyment

Fortunately the people actually playing in my games get to decide if I am an asshole gm or not.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;586257I started a rant about individual players feeling like they need to compete and win against other players.  That had nothing to do with edition or class v class, but a personality defect of an individual.   You can't blame me for them coming in and turning into yet another fvw thread.  Hell, LM even admitted that's what he does, over and over.

I think that you would have to agree that the implication in the original rant was that this was a feature of the 'New entitled player' as represented by the denner invasion not something that happened in the old days when we carved our own dice out of rocks.

In fact its always been there a spotlight hogging player is a spotlight hogging player. Competition between players is as old as the game.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;586242Damn. You kill PLAYERS! Thats fucking hardcore man. :rotfl:

Off topic, but,

You know, Dexter is a great example of an 'Evil' character that is playable.

He channels his urge to kill toward other evil people.

That can work in a player character group.