Quote from: noisms;584694Some people are honestly just more hard working and conscientious than others. I'm not one of those people. Put it this way: I got paid a considerable wad of cash at the beginning to complete a PhD and it's taken me a year too long.

But I've been paid large sums on completion of translation projects (which are not as creative as writing a PhD, but by no means lacking in creativity requirements) and never once missed a deadline.

Some people just really need that carrot.

Some people need the carrot.

I don't think this is what's going on though, I think what's going on is:

1. Holy fuck writing for print is way harder than writing a blog

2. Holy fuck explaining this dungeon to other people is way harder than me just knowing it

3. Holy fuck if I want this to be good I have to include this and this and this

4. Holy fuck these things all need stats

5. Holy fuck art work from people in different time zones

6. Holy fuck dungeons are harder to edit than almost any other kind of prose because each thing refers to some off-screen thing

7. Holy fuck this happened while I playtested it, I better fix that.

I'm just thinking 12 dungeon levels is like...5-6 Vornheims ? And that was almost all one person doing everything including the art--no phone calls or do overs or re-edits or changing stuff because the pictures don't match the prose and vice versa.

I can see it taking some surprising time even without resorting to conspiracy theories or psychiatric evaluations. Dungeons with all the i's dotted and T's crossed are a bitch to put together.

Quote from: Zak S;584695Some people need the carrot.

I don't think this is what's going on though, I think what's going on is:

1. Holy fuck writing for print is way harder than writing a blog

2. Holy fuck explaining this dungeon to other people is way harder than me just knowing it

3. Holy fuck if I want this to be good I have to include this and this and this

4. Holy fuck these things all need stats

5. Holy fuck art work from people in different time zones

6. Holy fuck dungeons are harder to edit than almost any other kind of prose because each thing refers to some off-screen thing

7. Holy fuck this happened while I playtested it, I better fix that.

I'm just thinking 12 dungeon levels is like...5-6 Vornheims ? And that was almost all one person doing everything including the art.

I can see it taking some surprising time even without resorting to conspiracy theories or psychiatric evaluations. Dungeons with all the i's dotted and T's crossed are a bitch to put together.

I agree in part, sure. But paid deadlines do also focus the mind: with financial pressure, deciding what to include, chasing people up about art work, proofreading, etc. suddenly become surprisingly easier. There really is something about a little bit of stress that gets the creative juices flowing - I know about that first hand.

I'm not trying to criticise James, here - he seems like a genuinely nice guy. I think basically what I'm trying to say is that Kickstarter works better for some personality types than others.

(As an aside, a completed manuscript for Dwimmermount could, I think, be professionally proofread for less than $500, depending on length. A trained monkey can do it, and I know because I was one of those trained monkeys once.)

Quote from: _kent_;584637Is it possible to release a supplement without creating a clone and yet avoid legal problems?

I'd say, yes, it's possible.  Depending on the supplement (and the author/publisher's comfort zone with the legal questions, gray areas, and risk) it wouldn't even necessarily need to use the OGL.  If the nature of the supplement allows this, you could reference it as compatible with Advanced D&D (and acknowledge that this is a trademark owned by WotC).  This is the approach that Kenzer took with their 4e Kalamar book.  They didn't use the OGL or the GSL, they were just careful what they put in there and they were careful to acknowledge WotC's trademarks when they claimed compatibility.

Another option is to use the OGL and leverage an existing clone.  That is, release an "OSRIC supplement" (or whatever).  Or just use the OGL straight-up without referencing any clones or WotC system other than the d20 SRD.  Change the stats and such to taste, and release it as a "First Edition Fantasy RPG Supplement" or a "Classic Fantasy RPG Supplement" or whatever.

QuoteIf for example someone independently created a magic system and classes which could be used with AD&D, OD&D, and recent clones how do you pitch it in the market?

If you've done it without the OGL and are comfortable that you're not infringing on any copyrights or trademarks (or patents, but I doubt that would apply), you can promote it as an "AD&D compatible" or "D&D compatible" supplement.  And you must acknowledge the ownership of those trademarks, et cetera, to indicate that you aren't challenging them.

If you're more comfortable with the OGL as a legal "safe harbor," then you can't claim compatibility or mention the WotC trademarks, so you'd either promote it using one of the clones ("For Labyrinth Lord and Other Fine Game Systems"), or you'd promote it with a generic but meaningful description ("For First Edition Fantasy Games").

QuoteCould you for example turn your website into a 50 page pdf and sell it?

Easily, I'd say.  Most of that is commentary.  With some editing, I could probably publish most it without the OGL, even referencing "D&D" as long as I acknowledged it as a trademark owned by WotC.

If I went the OGL route I'd probably be on safer legal ground with some of the more rules-oriented material, but I'd have to remove all references to WotC-owned trademarks, which would be kind of annoying.  

(My site is currently down, though.  I was planning on moving to a different hosting provider and re-working the layout and stuff, but haven't gotten around to it.  There's nothing new on it, anyway.  It's been static for a long time.)

Quote from: _kent_;584649Is it naive to think WotC would just never bother going after the author of an 'AD&D supplement' which is unlikely to sell above 1000 units?

I'd say it depends on the nature of the infringement that WotC is claiming.  If it is a trademark infringement, then WotC is pretty much legally obligated to make an issue of it once they become aware of it.  Not doing so could cause them legal problems down the road (i.e., they could be accused of abandoning their mark).

If it's a copyright issue, then it's less likely that they'd bother, but there's no guarantee.

Quote from: Settembrini;584678Also, Kev's kickstarters indeed have been successes and product and extras were delivered on time.

I thought the last two where now way overdue?

Quote from: P&P;584681Overall, this is a game of mediaeval economic management written by people who don't understand mediaeval economics, superimposed on an admittedly tightly-written retro-clone.

While certainly Tavis can jump in, I want to address this for the general case.

So what?  So what it that it it is a poorly written medieval economic simulation. D&D is not a game about simulating medieval life, nor it ever was. Because D&D was so abstract at depicting medieval it inspired the author of Chivalry & Sorcery to write an RPG they felt was. The same with the combat system which was one of the main drivers behind the creation of Runequest.

Look at the economic system in the DMG, B/X and the OD&D books. The better question is does ACKS build on the ideas of economic in those rulebook?

ACK now seems utterly pointless. It does not want to simulate D&D economy and it does not want to be historical. So it's about nothing.

@Justin Alexander:

Thank you very much for the answer, I think that was more beneficial to your position than being repetitive vs IRWS...
...so IRWS, why the attack on JA, when his project's problems seem to be of a totally different sort than having to do with non-delivery or deception about the work done so far.

@Zak S

Why would you defend JM, are you selling sth together? This reeks of something...

Quote from: Settembrini;584712...so IRWS, why the attack on JA, when his project's problems seem to be of a totally different sort than having to do with non-delivery or deception about the work done so

I was simply pointing out that he might not be so innocent with his rabid defense of Jim. The more he played the Internet tough guy the more I felt he was deflecting for a reason. I mean if I'm a troll ignore me, right?

In addition. I clicked the links in his sig and found out about his crowd sourcing that way. It took me all of two minuets.

In my mind no art is worth holding up a project. If he's missing only two pieces, why hold up releasing? You could fulfill your obligations and down the line put the art in.

For me, if you take money and promise to deliver x by y, you have to deliver x by y. Period. Do not go live unless you know you an do this.

Nearly every industry hits deadlines. They do so by keeping a schedule. The Jim situation could ave been avoided if there was a clear idea of how much needed to be done, and a realization that no matter how much you wish it to be true, he set deadline was not practical due to the lofty expectations the creator put on it.

In the above case, holding release for a year due to two missing art pieces is a silly reason to not honor your obligations.

If I do a kickstarter for Dwimmerdust, you can bet your ass I will do so with a product ready for print. I would never take money and not deliver on a promise. I will also make damn sure my schedule was realistic.

IRWS

Quote from: estar;584709Look at the economic system in the DMG, B/X and the OD&D books. The better question is does ACKS build on the ideas of economic in those rulebook?

Certainly it builds on them.  But I think the "better question" is whether the game needs or benefits from that degree of economic management.  The answer to which may vary from group to group but from my perspective it's certainly a pretty long way away from what my group would want or indeed anything that I think vaguely resembles fun.

The very rudimentary economics that Gary wrote basically use money as a way of keeping score.  GP = xp, job done.  That's what they're for.  Sure, successful player characters end up with enormous piles of gold that they've got nothing to spend on, but does it benefit from building on?

And this business of (for example) taking over a criminal guild being done with a roll and a table lookup.  All resolved in less than one minute flat.  Instead of, say, meeting up with the criminals and figuring out who's in charge and getting to them and... persuading them to retire, a session or two's worth of adventuring, you roll on a table.  

The only explanation for these things that I can see is that the system's actively designed to skim over adventuring scenarios.  Presumably so as to get back to the investment and mercantile trading.

Clearly I'm not the target market.  

Quote from: I run with scissors;584717In addition. I clicked the links in his sig and found out about his crowd sourcing that way. It took me all of two minuets.

This is one of those typos that provides genuine amusement. Is French dancing a method of divination for you?

Quote from: I run with scissors;584717If I do a kickstarter for Dwimmerdust, you can bet your ass I will do so with a product ready for print. I would never take money and not deliver on a promise. I will also make damn sure my schedule was realistic.

IRWS

So all of this is just a genius pre-launch marketing campaign for Dwimmerdust?

Quote from: Exploderwizard;584719This is one of those typos that provides genuine amusement. Is French dancing a method of divination for you?

Yes.

Two things:

1. I type on the iPad. Not an excuse, but a simple statement of fact.

2. As I mentioned on my blog, am writing all of this as a stream of conciseness. Taking a page from beat writers such as Jack Kerouac and Alan Ginsberg, I am writing this as a I go. I simply sit and write what I want. I do not revise, and once I am done, I hit submit. That's it.

By doing this, I open myself up to ridicule, but to be honest with, if I could not handle it, why would I take the IRWS persona?

IRWS

Quote from: noisms;584721So all of this is just a genius pre-launch marketing campaign for Dwimmerdust?

Hell if I know. Dwimmerdust and my Retro Retro started as a dare. I've been dared to finish Dwimmerdust and do a kickstarter. For me all work has three motivations:

1. Spite
2. For the fun of it.
3. Proving it can be done.

As long as I am having fun, I will do it.

Dwimmerdust has no plan, hell it is spontaneous in its' creation. I'm crafting my legendary dungeon as it comes to me.

IRWS

Quote from: noisms;584721So all of this is just a genius pre-launch marketing campaign for Dwimmerdust?

That's sorta what I figured too.  

That said, this is the most entertaining thread I've read here in years.  

I'd have some thoughts on the matter being discussed, I guess, if I were to think hard enough about it, but I can't be bothered to because this whole issue Just Doesn't Matter.  At All.  

Still, entertaining.  Keeps me amused on a Sunday morning while sipping coffee.  Carry on!