Quote from: Guy Fullerton;584061Yup. Your modules have been in the list since the list was first discovered, IIRC. You can search by publisher to find them.

The publishing dates for the WGH series are shown to be in 2009, because that's when they were finished, with maps and everything. (Thanks to various forums and the internet archive, it's possible to see when they were and were not complete.)


Not buy, and not publish. Just a clean re-layout for you to host/publish as usual, in exchange for a credit in the module.

Hey that's cool; re the module - it's been a long long long time so my memory of our exchange is very hazy so apologies for muddying the picture.  No offense intended.

Quote from: Melan;584124I sometimes wish we could cut this bullshit and focus on playing, running, discussing and making stuff for games we enjoy.

Isn't this exactly what James and Tavis are doing?

Quote from: Exploderwizard;584038It was L3. The version that was published in that set was very underwhelming IMHO compared to the awesome of L1 & L2.

And Dragonsfoot published Lakovka's L4 - Devilspawn, for free, a few years back along with a Lendore Isles companion. I'm still astonished at the lack of publicity it got or indeed how little recognition there is of some of the other stuff they have published. Of course its all for free so the brilliant work of say John Turcotte's Where The Fallen Jarls Sleep series can't be as good as a cheap LL module available for a $2 download, to say nothing of the 'legendary' Dwimmermount.

I really like some of the OSR stuff put out there (LotFP and anything by Kevin Crawford) but its because of the quality of the game and not because it might let me identify with a commercial OSR movement.

Quote from: Melan;584124the increasing crust of non-contributors around this segment of the hobby who are only in for the lulz and tearing down others. It would be nice if those people fucked right off to back where they originally came from.

Or ... we could tell the increasing crust of contributors of absolute shit to fuck off and then we could get on with discussing only the good stuff.

Quote from: _kent_;584136Or ... we could tell the increasing crust of contributors of absolute shit to fuck off and then we could get on with discussing only the good stuff.

But then you'd be out of the conversation, wouldn't you?

Quote from: Fiasco;584134And Dragonsfoot published Lakovka's L4 - Devilspawn, for free, a few years back along with a Lendore Isles companion. I'm still astonished at the lack of publicity it got or indeed how little recognition there is of some of the other stuff they have published.

It did get publicity, but not good publicity.  It was a pretty badly put together product from what I could tell.

Quote from: Melan;584124I sometimes wish we could cut this bullshit and focus on playing, running, discussing and making stuff for games we enjoy. That's, ah, what makes Fight On! magazine or Dyson's Dodecahedron or Joesky! worth more than the parade of Blogosphere Superstars or the increasing crust of non-contributors around this segment of the hobby who are only in for the lulz and tearing down others. It would be nice if those people fucked right off to back where they originally came from.

I think I'd feel rude asking for examples of the 'superstars' and 'crust'.  And yet here I am.

Guess I know the sort you're talking about, though, and I suppose in theory I agree with you (as much as one can without being certain we're repulsed by the same stuff).  For my part, I try to run, play, and write, and keep the navel-gazing and masturbation to a minimum.

Quote from: KenHR;584139But then you'd be out of the conversation, wouldn't you?

You are barking up the wrong tree. I have no idea who you are and have no interest in your comments, you are a non-entity to me.

Quote from: _kent_;584144You are barking up the wrong tree. I have no idea who you are and have no interest in your comments, you are a non-entity to me.

Oh, that hurts.  Would it help if I was Jewish?

So why aren't you discussing the good stuff?  You're a crusty contributor of shit.  Even Ghost Whistler posts something useful every once in a while.  You just pop up every now and again to spew bile.  I've never seen anything useful come from your keyboard, not here, not on your blog, not on ydis.

Quote from: One Horse Town;583808This is turning into Desborough country.

Quote from: samovar;583987Nobody had any ambitions to cash a check and no OGL was required.

There are arguable copyright issues about the legality of posting pre-OGL stuff on the web. Fair Use is strong, but most fan sites fold with the first cease & desist letter. The OGL meant that you'd never get that letter.

I remember the TSR purges of fan sites back in the 90s.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;584070But therein lies what I see as problematic: so much of what gets batted around "the OSR hobby" is more about personalities and 'products' than it is "promoting older edition D&D."

I suspect this is an issue with any kind of revival. I know its an issue in charity circles.

When Band XYZ plays at a charity event, they may be playing for free with full intent of promoting the charitable cause, but the exposure certainly helps sell their own albums too. And often, the media gives all the attention to the celebrity and not the charity.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;584073You appear to be insinuating that I've missed a promised release date. Is that what you're trying to say, you lying sack of shit?

Yes, I believe that is what he is saying.

Quote from: The Butcher;584085I swear to God I don't get theRPGsite's dysfunctional marriage with the OSR.

It is a source of much lulz.

Quote from: The Butcher;584085I don't give a flying fuck if you've been playing AD&D non-stop since 1979

I've been playing since 1978! I won the flying fuck!

Quote from: Black Vulmea;584087- or perhaps those in "the OSR hobby," with its "legendary" four year-old half-written megadungeons, simply don't realise that we used so much of what was produced back in the day interchangeably.

Most D&Ders back in the 80s never bought anything that wasn't TSR. Those who used Arduin, JG or Mayfair stuff were a subset of the hobby.

I was always a mix & match DM, but I never cared about RAW. Today, RAW is the dominant expectation among gamers so its not surprising that they would buy new entire rulesets rather than mix & match.

Quote from: Fiasco;584134And Dragonsfoot published Lakovka's L4 - Devilspawn, for free, a few years back along with a Lendore Isles companion. I'm still astonished at the lack of publicity it got or indeed how little recognition there is of some of the other stuff they have published.

I am surprised DF hasn't repackaged their old free stuff with some more art, new layout, etc into some for nice for sale products to help fund the website.

Quote from: Benoist;583989PS: I'm putting "OSR hobby" between quotation marks because it's something of a fascinating notion to me that I don't really agree with, or can't relate to, this notion that there is a hobby that is apart from the wider RPG hobby that's the "OSR hobby". That honestly smacks of groupthink to me and I wonder if the way Dwimmermount unfolded can be traced back to the flaws inherent to the OSR blogosphere in terms of confirmation bias (deleting comments, buddies commenting on each other's posts all the time, etc).

This a Million times

Quote from: EOTB;584075Big +1 here.  And I like Rob's sandbox stuff, too.  Where I start to lose interest is when someone puts out rulesets to replace old-edition D&D with their shiny new thing.  The point was not to write new games.  It was to write material for old games.

Wasn't it?

(Note I don't have a problem with Dwimmermount here - it was written as new material for an old game.  I realize it was inevitable that it would also have an "ACK version" given the partnership.)

I can't disagree with you more, obviously.  The OSR that is all about re-releasing exact duplicates of old games and rehashing the same pre-1979 stuff over and over again forever is the stupid OSR I want nothing to do with; and fortunately, the majority of Old School gamers have figured that out now.  

The OSR that's released Majestic Wilderlands, Stars Without Number, Mutant Future, Lamentations of the Flame Princess, ACKS, AS&SH, DCC and other such things? That's the fucking awesome OSR I want to be a part of. Thank sweet Christ that's what's on the rise now.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Justin Alexander;584073You appear to be insinuating that I've missed a promised release date. Is that what you're trying to say, you lying sack of shit?

Answer the questions:

1. Did you do a crowd funding via 8bit?

2. Did the crowd funding close on 9/11/2011?

3. Have you not hit your promise release date?

4. Did you not write this: http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/17467/roleplaying-games/legends-labyrinths-not-an-update?

5. Does not 8 bit state:

QuoteFees and Payments
As with other sites similar to ours, 8-Bit Funding will have a base line fee for its services. In addition to our own fees, PayPal (and any service we may use in the future) will also have its own fees. Here's the breakdown:
PayPal charges 2.9% + $0.30 per transaction. So, for example, a $20 funding will come out to  $19.12.
Our own charge is 5%.
So, after both PayPal's and our fee on a $20 funding contribution you'll receive $18.16 of that.
It's a little complicated, but it's the best system available so that everybody gets paid.
Contributions are immediately deposited into your PayPal email account that you supplied when creating your project.

Thus, reading this, one can infer you took money. Is this not true?

So let me make this clear, since you are a pseudo intellectual who shows his lack of honest debate, by belittling and slander:

Did you run a crowd funding campaign, in which you took money upon its' September 11, 2011 closure, and as of September 20, 2012, not sent rewards to said campaigns backers?

Now, knowing your usual tactics you are going to do the following:

1. Call me a lying sack shit.

2. Post a very incoherent malicious screed against me.

3. Deflect the question, and attempt to make me cower under a barrage of immature internet tough guy profanity.

I also know you will not answer the question.

At the end of the day, I could care less about hurting your feelings. You have proven time and time again that you are an internet tough guy who has nothing to offer but profanity laced diatribes.

Or, and a post script, it was a freaking typo. You will not cower me, no matter how many times you call me a piece of shit. I would continue this contest of wits with you, but I find you sanctimonious witless gas bag.

IRWS

Quote from: VectorSigma;584116100%.  Every time a new 'game' comes out I have to ask "couldn't this have been a setting/genre supplement or something?"  I mean, if ACKS had instead just been a "domain game supplement that works with OSRIC/LL/S&W/hackable thingy", wouldn't that have been better?

With full awareness that I am bending over to pick up the soap in a prison shower that has Kent in it, this RPGsite thread has a pretty good summary of why ACKS needed to go with a complete ruleset approach while An Echo, Resounding could be presented as a supplement. If you want an economic system that can be consistently extrapolated to the most basic and concrete elements, you need to be able to control all levels of the pricing and to make necessary changes to the assumptions of the system. You see the perils of not doing so in the Pathfinder Kingmaker adventure path; the need for the system to be back-compatible with the 3.5 rules for magic item creation totally sinks the attempt to make a gameable realm-management system. AER is able to be a supplement by remaining abstract; you can add it to whatever game you're playing, but at some point you have to make a conceptual leap from the native system's low-level concrete stuff to AER's high-level abstract domain management system. Whether or not this is a problem depends on you and your players. You can use ACKS as a domain system supplement for any OS system if you don't worry about whether the low-level prices for swords and the high-level wages for hiring an army's worth of swordsmiths line up precisely.

On the OSR thing, my fannish background is in science fiction, so I see two benefits to putting a label on things:

1) A book whose publisher has let the library know that they should put a rocketship sticker on the spine is one I am likely to enjoy. It's worth noting that, up until 1970 or so, SF fans read everything that came out every year; you had a monkey on your back that needed to be fed, and couldn't afford to be picky about whether your fix came from John Norman or Ursula LeGuin. The fact that there is now enough original-editions-compatible stuff released every year that people can't read it all, and wind up choosing to pay attention to some subset or another, generates some ugly factionalism (as you also see in SF history) but is really pretty sweet when you consider the alternative.

2) Once you define a genre you can talk about its history and where it's going and how individual works relate to the whole and suchlike things that are fun to bloviate about if you're into this, which I am. I'm happier now that I'm more into RPGs and less into SF, because actually playing with other people is more satisfying than critical assessment of genre. Nevertheless the reason that Games Workshop wants to be seen as a hobby rather than a game is that all of us inevitably have more time for solo pursuits like painting figures than we do to get together and play. If we're talking about an OSR hobby I think we mean the same thing, with posting instead of painting: "How do we spend our time being involved with gaming during the time we can't roust our friends to actually do it?" It's worth noting that most of our disagreement comes from the talking rather than the playing. I not infrequently have the experience of having a really good time with someone at a convention and then realizing later "hey wasn't that the guy who's been cutting me a new asshole online?"

On the actual play thing: For the first class in the new semester of my D&D afterschool program, we had two adventuring parties of kids age 8-12 entering Dwimmermount at the same time - one coming up from level 2A or 2B, one coming down from either of the surface entrances - and competing to emerge with the most treasure.

The main reason I did this with Dwimmermount was that it's partially built in Minecraft, which most of the kids are fanatics about. Nevertheless old-fashioned pen and paper roleplaying with the dungeon proved to be really fun. My group worked themselves into an enjoyable state of paranoia with the pedestals on the Path of Mavors, followed by telling each other what the visions signified about their goals in the dungeon. That was interrupted by the sound of the other group triggering the shrieker guardians, which led my party to go haring off in search of these interlopers and having a parley with kobolds who (the reaction roll said) just wanted to be left alone without all this shrieking and being expected to go kill intruders.

In this context, for me Dwimmermount hits just the right sweet spot between having elements that newbies can latch onto immediately vs. putting some meat on those bones for people who've been around this block before (like the homages to Zenopus's Tower which is what I was playing when I was 8-12).

Justin, upthread you were talking about how the trick is to do something unique with 8 skeletons. When I'm running for kids or strangers at a convention, I don't have much room to get across unique; it's more valuable to have room for a reaction roll to dictate that the kobolds do something unpredictable, while still contextualizing this within an evocative setting and backstory. Even though I'm not supposed to be part of your mutual admiration society, you having drunk the kool-aid of The Edition that Shall Not Be Named and all, I feel like you'd be able to finesse this trick and present a dungeon that's low-prep enough to run for kids while still having a through-line to implicit depths that'd be innovative for the most expert among us. Still that doesn't lessen my appreciation for dungeons that err on one side or another of this golden mean, but not so much so that they aren't fun as hell when the rubber hits the road.

I just wanted to make this post as a sign of goodwill towards IRWS.  I jumped on your case earlier about your style of speech, but you're right in that since it was called out, you haven't acted any different than anyone else, so I guess I apologize for taking that discussion into something more than it ever should have been.