The few times I have used gunpowder in a dnd game I usually made it a dwarven creation that they were careful to hide the recipie of.

Mechanically primitive gunpowerder weapons are not a problem.

A bow is argueably superior to a very primitive firearm. (If the training time to learn to use it effectively is not a factor)

Flavor wise it really depends on the setting.

Gunpowder, especially the introduction of gunpowder, can make a nice scenario arc in a fantasy campaign. You just have to make it realistic, in which case (going with the early gunpowder era) the weapons are not that practical compared to other options, e.g. longbows. In RPG mano-a-mano combat they're essentially equivalent to crossbows - one shot and drop 'em. I've had a few games where the PCs just didn't want to use guns because they brought a whole lot of other problems (keeping your powder dry, misfires, the sheer weight of the things, etc.).

Of course once you get into artillery it's a different kettle of fish.

Historical, or semi-historical, settings use gunpowder all the time and such settings have rules for it (Renaissance, Legend, RQ, BRP all have black powder rules, for example).

Look at the Conquistadors, mounted knights in plate or semi-plate, with swords and pistols.

But, for generic fantasy, I agree that it rarely ever figures.

Quote from: Vile;582092Gunpowder, especially the introduction of gunpowder, can make a nice scenario arc in a fantasy campaign. You just have to make it realistic, in which case (going with the early gunpowder era) the weapons are not that practical compared to other options, e.g. longbows. In RPG mano-a-mano combat they're essentially equivalent to crossbows - one shot and drop 'em. I've had a few games where the PCs just didn't want to use guns because they brought a whole lot of other problems (keeping your powder dry, misfires, the sheer weight of the things, etc.).

Of course once you get into artillery it's a different kettle of fish.

My albion campaign started with gunpowder already existing on The Continent but being virtually unknown on Albion itself; then as things progressed, it starts to get slowly introduced.  The first time the PCs saw a Bombard (cannon) in a battle, that was quite the thing; then they were very excited when they managed to loot some rifles or pistols from Frogmen.  Then in the last large battles they've fought in so far, there were units of mercenary riflemen.  The whole thing has been a very interesting development in the flavor of the game.

Not to mention the one PC specialist who likes to fool around with building bombs.

RPGPundit

I've used firearms in fantasy since AD&D 2nd edition. I use alchemical smokepowder rather than true gunpowder however,. Lets me keep a tighter rein on its use.

Depending, of course, on our games setting and tone, we've used gunpowder for a long time.

Ravenloft, Pirates, etc we will go with more realistic damage such as d6 for pistols, d8 for horse pistols, etc.

For games such as our Spaghetti westerns we use multiple d6's that explode. That's the nature of Spaghetti's though; a heavy focus on the gun as the ultimate weapon.

The funny thing is, in my game I don't really do much of anything (other than exploding dice) to make gunpowder weapons superior, and a lot that makes them inferior choices for ranged weapons (shorter range than bows, take 3 rounds to load making them even slower than crossbows without the crossbow's extra to-hit bonus, much more expensive) and yet my players still love them and all want to have one.

RPGPundit

I personally don't have a problem with it because Arquebus is already in the PHB. Guns of the time weren't rapid loading or very accurate so I don't really fear it for the time. In game it isn't so bad, it's like Strong X-bows, the reload time is atrocious. That and cannons are siege weapons, which sadly just does not get enough play in games. Just assume round ball front loading instead of rifled breach loading and throw in the occasional % backfire accident.

I think people too often think of modern times and try to overlay it upon the fantasy middle ages. It's gonna lead to weird interpretations, I think. Our modern gear took much innovation over the years to get where they are and that's easy to forget or overlook.

However, I tend to play in the early middle ages. I like knights and mount barding; it's expensive and makes your horse look like NASCAR.

Quote from: RPGPundit;583325The funny thing is, in my game I don't really do much of anything (other than exploding dice) to make gunpowder weapons superior, and a lot that makes them inferior choices for ranged weapons (shorter range than bows, take 3 rounds to load making them even slower than crossbows without the crossbow's extra to-hit bonus, much more expensive) and yet my players still love them and all want to have one.

Eh they had air rifles that were the equivalent to an extended magazine 9mm semi automatic pistol while gunpowder weapons were still being operated from a standing position only, sometimes history takes funny turns. I make medieval armour half stopping power against guns usually, but keep them out of pure fantasy games.

Quote from: The Traveller;583406Eh they had air rifles that were the equivalent to an extended magazine 9mm semi automatic pistol while gunpowder weapons were still being operated from a standing position only, sometimes history takes funny turns.

I'm not sure what you mean by this? Do you have some kind of a reference to what you're talking about?

RPGPundit

I had a country whose mages did not use a school of magics that gave them "direct" attacks (I think it was abjuration/invocation, but cannot recall, it was for AD&D2E.)

These mages carried Dragonnes, guns with a dragon motif for the frame. They were the only nation who knew how to make the dragon powder.

In the setting the country who had it had a very strong isolationist bent and had magics that were very effective defensively, to keep people out. Of course a few trickled in and a few out. So guns were possible elsewhere in the setting just very expensive and rare.

Quote from: RPGPundit;583786I'm not sure what you mean by this? Do you have some kind of a reference to what you're talking about?

RPGPundit

Here's a good example. These days they sell .50 air rifles used for hunting buffalo.

Quote from: RPGPundit;583786I'm not sure what you mean by this? Do you have some kind of a reference to what you're talking about?

RPGPundit

Military grade air powered firearms existed in the 18th and 19th century. They were used by the Lewis & Clark expedition and Austria fielded an entire battalion with them. No gunpowder required.

I used to be against gunpowder, as already noted, it's not really in most fantasy books. Lately, though, I wouldn't mind it in limited doses. Something like the grenades and bombs used in the Malazan books would be pretty cool. Guns reserved to NPC monsters like skaven is also perfectly fine with me.

Quote from: The Traveller;583792Here's a good example. These days they sell .50 air rifles used for hunting buffalo.

Ah. Ok. Hence my confusion; I thought you were talking about a much earlier time period than that. Now it makes sense.

RPGPundit