Quote from: BedrockBrendan;564693There are different power levels in any strike. Every punch I throw isn't a power punch (same with kicks) and I pick carefully when I am going to unload. For game purposes doing so on a crit seems fair to me (since that is kind of what crits do already).

I have done muay thai for years as well but I think any attempt to turn real experience like that into direct mechanics is tricky. Not sure its worth being overly pedantic about (not that you are being pedantic jibba). I don't know what bill has in mind for uber awesome kick but spinning back kick and Spinning heel kick leap to mind as candidates. A full force round kick to the head can easily knock someone out (though I have taken a full force thai round to the head and not been knocked out). A spinning back kick at the right moment as a counter can get a lot of additional force.

Quote from: Bill;564702I am no expert; I don't know how to fight. I was refering to the slightly to immensely over the top attacks you would see in fantasy combat.

Real life warriors are more limited

Quote from: Sacrosanct;564703I guess that depends on what your personal taste is in fantasy combat.  Wuxia?  Sure, real life is nothing like that.  My experiences in TSR era?  Nothing that a real life person couldn't do for the most part.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;564693There are different power levels in any strike. Every punch I throw isn't a power punch (same with kicks) and I pick carefully when I am going to unload. For game purposes doing so on a crit seems fair to me (since that is kind of what crits do already).

I have done muay thai for years as well but I think any attempt to turn real experience like that into direct mechanics is tricky. Not sure its worth being overly pedantic about (not that you are being pedantic jibba). I don't know what bill has in mind for uber awesome kick but spinning back kick and Spinning heel kick leap to mind as candidates. A full force round kick to the head can easily knock someone out (though I have taken a full force thai round to the head and not been knocked out). A spinning back kick at the right moment as a counter can get a lot of additional force.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;564696That's the problems RPGs will always have.  Real melee fights are fast, furious, and a lot of times chaotic.  There is no way to really do that with an RPG.  Would you want to play an RPG where 95% of your attacks missed or were blocked, and you had to roll over a hundred times for combat that might last just a few minutes?

Probably not.  That's why I don't think it's all that valuable of an exercise to try to really look at it from a micro level.  There's always going to be associative and dissociative mechanics involved.  It really just comes down to personal preference.

Quote from: Bill;564704In real life, I suspect it would be nearly impossible for one man to defeat thirty in hand to hand combat. In dnd, one level 12 fighter would destroy Thirty level one fighters.

Well, unless he had no armor, then he might lose.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;564709I never spent much time playing above level 10 or so, and even then, in my campaigns, if a level 10 fighter fought 30 level 1 fighters at the same time, he would most likely be overwhelmed and beat to a pulp.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;564710I think powerful crit riders that a skilled fighter could choose from would be a good way to handle those powerful types of moves that you shouldn't be able to do repeatedly every round without getting into the weirdness of "dailies" or "encounters".

Quote from: jibbajibba;564713I mentioned in the Fighter vs Wizard thread that a fighters critical damage should keep pace with a thief's backstab damage ie not be fixed at double damage.

Former Site Member BT posted a thread in which figthers shoudl eb abel to use critical hits for a range of additional effects (and rouges should be able to use opponents critical failures in a similar way)

The idea is nice although I wasn't keen on the actual effects so much as I thought they were things you should be able to actually attempt.

Quote from: Bill;564711What if they need a 20 to hit him, and he has whirlwind attack and great cleave?

But I agree he should not be able to defeat them, but the dnd baseline game assumes he can.

DM fiat for the win!

Quote from: Psychman;564756Guys, this is why skill based games with active defences got made in the first place.  Everyone is vulnerable, even the greatest warriors, to a lucky shot, and anyone can be overwhelmed.

RQ6 and Legend (MRQ2) as was also have the "combat manouvre/special effect" mechanic for the edge greater skill provides, and includes actions such as outmanouvre to keep under control the number a combatant is dealing with.

Sometimes one has to admit that D&D cannot model it all as desired and either accept the abstraction or find an alternative.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;564725I'm talking about AD&D.  3.5 has many of those wuxia type actions that I was talking about earlier.  An AD&D fighter won't have whirlwind or great cleave.  An AD&D fighter, when set upon by 30 fighters, will probably manage to fight off a couple until the rush overwhelms him.