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When Did CharOp start?

Started by jeff37923, July 22, 2012, 05:07:36 PM

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Melan

#60
July 24, 2012, 08:57:16 AM
Quote from: Bill;563686UA was the first overpowered splatbook!
How about Greyhawk, with its 9th level spells and Paladins?
Now with a Zine!
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Sacrosanct

#61
July 24, 2012, 09:45:56 AM
I think the only kit that was used in CharOp was the Bladesinger.  Almost all the other kits only gave you minor bonuses.  The aforementioned swashbuckler kit only gave you a +2 to AC when wearing light armor, a +2 reaction bonus, and not having to spend double NWP on rogue skills.  That isn't that much, especially considering you're giving up a huge part of a benefit to being a fighter--being able to wear plate mail.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

jibbajibba

#62
July 24, 2012, 11:13:19 AM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;563714I think the only kit that was used in CharOp was the Bladesinger.  Almost all the other kits only gave you minor bonuses.  The aforementioned swashbuckler kit only gave you a +2 to AC when wearing light armor, a +2 reaction bonus, and not having to spend double NWP on rogue skills.  That isn't that much, especially considering you're giving up a huge part of a benefit to being a fighter--being able to wear plate mail.

True for Fighter, thief, wizard, priest (although a lot of Charop potential in the specialist faith section there) and Bard. But once you get to the Complete Ranger CharOp has taken over I think. The ridiculous 3 armed tree ranger being a case in point.
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Bill

#63
July 24, 2012, 11:15:50 AM
Quote from: Melan;563692How about Greyhawk, with its 9th level spells and Paladins?

Ok..second book :)

Sacrosanct

#64
July 24, 2012, 11:22:39 AM
Quote from: jibbajibba;563734True for Fighter, thief, wizard, priest (although a lot of Charop potential in the specialist faith section there) and Bard. But once you get to the Complete Ranger CharOp has taken over I think. The ridiculous 3 armed tree ranger being a case in point.


Oh, I forgot about that one because he looked so dumb.  I guess my gaming groups placed more importance on "is my character cool" rather than "woohoo!  I'll look like an idiot but I get an extra attack!"
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

jibbajibba

#65
July 24, 2012, 11:31:07 AM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;563739Oh, I forgot about that one because he looked so dumb.  I guess my gaming groups placed more importance on "is my character cool" rather than "woohoo!  I'll look like an idiot but I get an extra attack!"

Indeed even CharOp mosters have to draw a line and being a 3 armed tree usually does it.

But even Rangers themselves with free 2 weapon style spec annoy the crap out of me. But I mentioned that one before....
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Exploderwizard

#66
July 24, 2012, 12:13:55 PM
Quote from: jibbajibba;563744Indeed even CharOp mosters have to draw a line and being a 3 armed tree usually does it.

But even Rangers themselves with free 2 weapon style spec annoy the crap out of me. But I mentioned that one before....

2E began the Drizzt cloning of the ranger which then morphed into the Drizzt/Legolas hybrid that it is now.
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StormBringer

#67
July 24, 2012, 12:41:05 PM
Quote from: Melan;563692How about Greyhawk, with its 9th level spells and Paladins?
Variable weapon damage?  Pfffft.   Munchkins.
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Melan

#68
July 24, 2012, 01:06:03 PM
I would not go so far, but when I finally got my hands on my OD&D set, and realised spells only went up to 5th and 6th level (for Clerics and Magic-Users, respectively), something just clicked. There were the sensible boundaries of magical power.
Now with a Zine!
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Benoist

#69
July 24, 2012, 03:56:31 PM
Quote from: Melan;563692How about Greyhawk, with its 9th level spells and Paladins?

Br0ken!

StormBringer

#70
July 24, 2012, 04:00:30 PM
Quote from: Melan;563798I would not go so far, but when I finally got my hands on my OD&D set, and realised spells only went up to 5th and 6th level (for Clerics and Magic-Users, respectively), something just clicked. There were the sensible boundaries of magical power.
That's a good point.  In AD&D, 5th level is probably about the end of really practical Magic-User spells.  Even the wall spells are more or less quotidian.  There are a smattering of 6th level spells that are 'adventuring' useful, like stone to flesh or perhaps globe of invulnerability, but most of them and pretty much all the higher level spells could be thought of in terms of 4e rituals.  Sure, phase door, incendiary cloud, power word, kill...  These are more for defending your keep than clearing out a dungeon.
If you read the above post, you owe me $20 for tutoring fees

\'Let them call me rebel, and welcome, I have no concern for it, but I should suffer the misery of devils, were I to make a whore of my soul.\'
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Sacrosanct

#71
July 24, 2012, 04:01:26 PM
CharOp started way before D&D.  I would play Cowboys and Indians with my older brother, and he's always play this cowboy with a freaking gun that unlimited ammo!

"I got you!  I got you!  I got you!  You're dead!"
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Sacrosanct

#72
July 24, 2012, 04:02:44 PM
Quote from: Melan;563798I would not go so far, but when I finally got my hands on my OD&D set, and realised spells only went up to 5th and 6th level (for Clerics and Magic-Users, respectively), something just clicked. There were the sensible boundaries of magical power.


There's a reason why, after over 30 years of continuous AD&D gaming, 99% of our time spent is on levels 1-10 ;)
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Benoist

#73
July 24, 2012, 04:09:20 PM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;563874There's a reason why, after over 30 years of continuous AD&D gaming, 99% of our time spent is on levels 1-10 ;)

That's not the reason why at our gaming table. The real reason that 90+% of the game time is spent on levels 1-10 is because of the lethality of the game. If you don't fudge the dice or play it "emotionally safe" on the PCs, it's actually pretty hard to reach 5th level in the first place. It's a challenge. And 9th level means you *are* a high level character, for intents and purposes.

Sacrosanct

#74
July 24, 2012, 04:20:39 PM
Quote from: Benoist;563881That's not the reason why at our gaming table. The real reason that 90+% of the game time is spent on levels 1-10 is because of the lethality of the game. If you don't fudge the dice or play it "emotionally safe" on the PCs, it's actually pretty hard to reach 5th level in the first place. It's a challenge. And 9th level means you *are* a high level character, for intents and purposes.

Well, that's a big reason too ;)  But those times when characters start getting to level 11-14 or so?  We're usually ready to play a different character type.  And to be honest, it does feel a little too much power for my tastes anyway.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.
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