Quote from: game.monkey;548433Odd choice - you're going for penalties rather than bonuses, as the mechanic is intended.  But, you know, your game, your rules.

Why would anyone get a bonus in combat as they become exhausted with the effort over 10+ minutes?  Do people run faster in the last mile of a marathon?  Does a boxer hit harder and faster in the last rounds of a match?

Quote from: Pelgrane;548515I can't speak for Rob, but my favourite RPG is AD&D. I've been running what I like to think of as an immersive setting-based game for gamers who are entirely resistant to "storywank" concepts for over 30 years.  However, I enjoy a wide variety of games, and my enjoyment isn't informed by a theory or hatred of a theory.

We were laughing at the funny comments (particularly those about my "love letter" idea) rather than mocking anyone.

13th Age has the most beautiful map (we'll add it to the downloads on the pre-order), and I run ProFantasy Software. I think you can say that I'm fond of maps!

Never mind the haters.

Even if this game does not seem to be much of an interest to me, you deserve congratulations for getting it out. More games is always a good thing. Also, you brought us Esoterrorists/Trail of Cthulhu so I'm happy with Pelgrane.

The only thing I find interesting in all this is the idea of the escalation die. Also, Windjammer's suggestion to have specific battlefield conditions leading to the increase of the die seems sensible, to me. It might make it feel more emulative that way.

Quote from: Pelgrane;548502I am sorry - what do you mean by "those files"?

Just a guess, but he might be referring to the playtest character sheets.

They were quite amusing.

'This and that' on the equipment list for the sorcerer really cracked me up.

After reading WJ's assessment, the game is sounding worse.  I'm just not into gimmicky mechanics like the escalation die or rogue "momentum."  Could you give us some examples of martial powers?  I'm curious as to how this stacks up to 4e.

Quote from: StormBringer;548526Why would anyone get a bonus in combat as they become exhausted with the effort over 10+ minutes?  Do people run faster in the last mile of a marathon?  Does a boxer hit harder and faster in the last rounds of a match?

I was looking at it from the game system point of view and how its supposed to be used (if done as written) - demonstrating increased momentum as the fight gets going.  

You could take the example of a Thai Boxing bout - the first couple of rounds are normally quite touchy-feely as the fighters test each other out and guards are quite tight.  Later rounds are when you tend to see the good knockouts as people open up and the blood starts flowing from cuts and so on - there tends to be an escalation after a few minutes of getting into it.

If you want a mechanic that grinds the characters down, rather than escalates the conflict (so that it doesn't get flabby at the end and keeps the action flowing), then you can do that too.

Quote from: Benoist;548528The only thing I find interesting in all this is the idea of the escalation die. Also, Windjammer's suggestion to have specific battlefield conditions leading to the increase of the die seems sensible, to me. It might make it feel more emulative that way.

The escalation die is interesting but not enough to save the game from Windjammer's report. As I said, I am surprised his reaction was so negative given what I had heard earlier about the game. I just assumed it wasn't aimed at my preferences and let it go but it sounds disappointing actually.

Quote from: Marleycat;548541The escalation die is interesting but not enough to save the game from Windjammer's report.

I completely agree. I think it might be a mechanic worth stealing to implement in a D&D game with some modifications, like the battlefield conditions talked about: monsters at half their numbers, chieftain getting killed, first hit in the fight, half the PCs hitting enemies in the round, etc might increase the die's value; likewise, reinforments, active efforts to rally might lower the die on occasion, maybe.

Quote from: Benoist;548542I completely agree. I think it might be a mechanic worth stealing to implement in a D&D game with some modifications, like the battlefield conditions talked about: monsters at half their numbers, chieftain getting killed, first hit in the fight, half the PCs hitting enemies in the round, etc might increase the die's value; likewise, reinforments, active efforts to rally might lower the die on occasion, maybe.

Definitely something to consider given it has the hitpoint inflation deal going on. It would speed up battles which one of 4e's big faults. I wonder if it could be adapted to a 3e style game?

Quote from: game.monkey;548540I was looking at it from the game system point of view and how its supposed to be used (if done as written) - demonstrating increased momentum as the fight gets going.  

And if you want the game system to feel like actual combat, that is exactly the opposite of what it should be doing.  After a certain point, combatants start to wear down, and the one with the best stamina typically comes out on top.  Mitigating factors like proper hit placement help, but that is more detail than most games opt for.

Fights start out with a certain amount of effort, if that doesn't work, you increase the effort until it does work.  Or, until you are exhausted and the opponent beats you.

QuoteYou could take the example of a Thai Boxing bout - the first couple of rounds are normally quite touchy-feely as the fighters test each other out and guards are quite tight.  Later rounds are when you tend to see the good knockouts as people open up and the blood starts flowing from cuts and so on - there tends to be an escalation after a few minutes of getting into it.

And if this game was called Thai Boxing Age, you would have a point.

QuoteIf you want a mechanic that grinds the characters down, rather than escalates the conflict (so that it doesn't get flabby at the end and keeps the action flowing), then you can do that too.

Giving a +6 to hit and damage after 6 rounds isn't 'escalating the combat', it's escalating the numbers and giving the players a delayed 'I win' button.  Escalating the combat is when the characters are running out of steam and need to make some hard decisions about how to continue, or whether they should continue.  You know, 'making it interesting'.

Quote from: StormBringer;548550Giving a +6 to hit and damage after 6 rounds isn't 'escalating the combat', it's escalating the numbers and giving the players a delayed 'I win' button.

I think the bonus should apply to enemies facing the PCs as well, as they find out the weaknesses of the group in live conditions too.

Does it apply to enemies and monsters too in 13th Age? If not, then you're right: that's basically a delayed "I win" button, and it sucks.

Quote from: Pelgrane;548515I can't speak for Rob, but my favourite RPG is AD&D. I've been running what I like to think of as an immersive setting-based game for gamers who are entirely resistant to "storywank" concepts for over 30 years.

Good to hear. :hatsoff:  

Quote from: Pelgrane;548515However, I enjoy a wide variety of games, and my enjoyment isn't informed by a theory or hatred of a theory.

Fair enough.

Quote from: Pelgrane;548515We were laughing at the funny comments (particularly those about my "love letter" idea) rather than mocking anyone.

The LL thing was a tad odd, simply because the phrase is usually used by a third party to describe someone else's work, used first person, it sounds a bit, well...pretentious.

I'm a customer since CC2 was the brand new thing, and I love all things ProFantasy.  For that matter I also think Pelgrane does high quality work, even if I don't like a lot about the systems.  For example, I don't play Gumshoe, but I still get all the ToC stuff to use with CoC, it's that good.

BTW, it's ok to mock BT, everyone here does at some point.

Actually the way I saw the Escalation Die was people getting tired.  Yes, they are in effect performing better offensively, but that's due to the inability to dodge and block, so it's easier to hit and damage as a result.  Moves you wouldn't try in a million years in the opening round of combat, you can pull off once you know your opponent, and his tiring defense allows the opening.

However, the Escalation Die mechanic isn't something I would use only for PCs.  I'd use it for both sides, that way it fulfills it's function as a "combat timer" without being a PC-win mechanism.

Quote from: CRKrueger;548559Actually the way I saw the Escalation Die was people getting tired. Yes, they are in effect performing better offensively, but that's due to the inability to dodge and block, so it's easier to hit and damage as a result. Moves you wouldn't try in a million years in the opening round of combat, you can pull off once you know your opponent, and his tiring defense allows the opening.
 
However, the Escalation Die mechanic isn't something I would use only for PCs. I'd use it for both sides, that way it fulfills it's function as a "combat timer" without being a PC-win mechanism.

Makes sense if you did that. It would give combat more of a swingy feel where anybody COULD win at anytime.

That combined to the DCC RPG die chain could become very interesting.