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Listen, you old fogies, I want my animes!

Started by B.T., May 07, 2012, 02:45:26 AM

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Melan

#45
May 08, 2012, 04:56:25 AM
Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;537273No problem, dude, I'm way ahead of you.  I've been off the edition carousel for years.  To me, "D&D" means certain things (i.e., the things that embodied the game from the start, and that you see as outdated and needing to be swept away in a "Next Generation D&D").
You are mistaken here. These kind of people don't want people off the edition carousel, they often want them out of the hobby, and have a whole fucked-up little mythology to justify that wish. It's an idea of progress through weeding out non-progressives (and no, I will not take the analogy any further, it's creepy enough within the context of edition wars about roleplaying games). Their idea is this: for gaming to live and prosper, Philotomy Jurament has to quit gaming.
Now with a Zine!
ⓘ This post is disputed by official sources

Dog Quixote

#46
May 08, 2012, 04:59:46 AM
Quote from: Marleycat;537271If the kids don't read, actually read something beyond say USA Today the world is done, let alone our little hobby. This hobby requires a love of reading and what it leads to to actually understand it.

I'm not saying that kids don't read.  Some kids read.  But only some, a minority, although that is going to depend on demographics.  (I used to be an English Teacher.)  Most teenagers only read the books they have to read for school (and often not really them).  It's probably always been the case, although it's often claimed that the number is dropping (but I can't say I've noticed any change from when I was at school.)

Dodger

#47
May 08, 2012, 05:05:03 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit;537256I totally agree that D&D should be inspired by the shows/literature that the kids these days are into... like Game of Thrones.
Which is why I reckon they need to reboot the setting...
Keeper of the Most Awesome and Glorious Book of Sigmar.
"Always after a defeat and a respite, the Shadow takes another shape and grows again." -- Gandalf
My Mod voice is nasal and rather annoying.

Punch and Pie

#48
May 08, 2012, 05:22:47 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit;537256I totally agree that D&D should be inspired by the shows/literature that the kids these days are into... like Game of Thrones.

RPGPundit

If anything, GoT mimics D&D ... endless mini-plots with little to no overarching cohesion, including an endless list of main PC's and supporting NPC's which die more often than not, requiring new PCs and NPCs to be generated.

GameDaddy

#49
May 08, 2012, 08:26:33 AM
Quote from: Marleycat;537271If the kids don't read, actually read something beyond say USA Today the world is done, let alone our little hobby. This hobby requires a love of reading and what it leads to to actually understand it.

What? D&D is actually an elitist intellectual pursuit then? That's how it all started out, so we've come full circle...
Blackmoor grew from a single Castle to include, first, several adjacent Castles (with the forces of Evil lying just off the edge of the world to an entire Northern Province of the Castle and Crusade Society's Great Kingdom.

~ Dave Arneson

Dog Quixote

#50
May 08, 2012, 08:58:20 AM
Quote from: GameDaddy;537306What? D&D is actually an elitist intellectual pursuit then? That's how it all started out, so we've come full circle...

Reading novels is an elite intellectual pursuit?

thecasualoblivion

#51
May 08, 2012, 09:43:13 AM
Quote from: Dog Quixote;537261The second is smaller, but has the advantage of coinciding more precisely with the core demographic of D&D which is kids that read.

Manga
"Other RPGs tend to focus on other aspects of roleplaying, while D&D traditionally focuses on racially-based home invasion, murder and theft."--The Little Raven, RPGnet

"We\'re not more violent than other countries. We just have more worthless people who need to die."

Drohem

#52
May 08, 2012, 09:55:01 AM
Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;537273No problem, dude, I'm way ahead of you.  I've been off the edition carousel for years.  To me, "D&D" means certain things (i.e., the things that embodied the game from the start, and that you see as outdated and needing to be swept away in a "Next Generation D&D").  I'll probably always see it that way, and see different games as...well, different games.  

But don't let my narrow vision of D&D stop you!  I assure you that I have no investment in "D&D Next."  I leave it entirely in your hands, to form as you will and to take in whatever direction you like.  (Didn't you guys already do that with 4e? Eh, I digress...whatever...)    

WotC keeps trying to lure me to whatever "D&D du jour" they're selling, but it's kind of like being propositioned by an aging transsexual streetwalker squeezed into some 70s-era disco pants: "C'mon baby, it's the same as it ever was, I promise.  I'll give you the real deal, just what you want.  Back to the dungeon, baby.  The game remains the same.  I'm the best of all worlds, you can play me any way you want..."  I'm just not buying it (you might say I'm not in the market).  I assure you that as far as "D&D Next" goes, I have Gone Away.

So spike up your hair, grab your massively oversized sword, and bust loose your Dragon Tail Kick.  Go on with your bad self, brother.  "D&D Next" is your oyster.  Shuck it and slurp it down.  I wish you joy and hope you find a pearl.

I read this post, smiled, and thought, 'poetry, man, poetry.'

Quote from: Melan;537277You are mistaken here. These kind of people don't want people off the edition carousel, they often want them out of the hobby, and have a whole fucked-up little mythology to justify that wish. It's an idea of progress through weeding out non-progressives (and no, I will not take the analogy any further, it's creepy enough within the context of edition wars about roleplaying games). Their idea is this: for gaming to live and prosper, Philotomy Jurament has to quit gaming.

Then I read this post and my smile faded immediately and was replaced by a weighted sadness.  Unfortunately, Melan may very well be right.

ggroy

#53
May 08, 2012, 10:37:34 AM
Quote from: Melan;537277You are mistaken here. These kind of people don't want people off the edition carousel, they often want them out of the hobby, and have a whole fucked-up little mythology to justify that wish. It's an idea of progress through weeding out non-progressives (and no, I will not take the analogy any further, it's creepy enough within the context of edition wars about roleplaying games). Their idea is this: for gaming to live and prosper, Philotomy Jurament has to quit gaming.

More generally, sometimes progress happens in this manner.

For example, some ideas in modern science eventually become accepted due to the old guard dying off, as a quote by Max Planck:


"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.[/b]

    Wissenschaftliche Selbstbiographie. Mit einem Bildnis und der von Max von Laue gehaltenen Traueransprache., Johann Ambrosius Barth Verlag, (Leipzig 1948), p. 22, as translated in Scientific Autobiography and Other Papers, trans. F. Gaynor (New York, 1949), pp.33-34 (as cited in T.S. Kuhn, The Structure of Scientific Revolutions)."

Marleycat

#54
May 08, 2012, 10:43:52 AM
Quote from: GameDaddy;537306What? D&D is actually an elitist intellectual pursuit then? That's how it all started out, so we've come full circle...

I just think a hobby about classic literary tropes kind of requires you actually picked up a book and read about them at some point. I'm not sure about it being intellectual or whatnot.
Don\'t mess with cats we kill wizards in one blow.;)

thecasualoblivion

#55
May 08, 2012, 10:46:22 AM
Quote from: Melan;537277You are mistaken here. These kind of people don't want people off the edition carousel, they often want them out of the hobby, and have a whole fucked-up little mythology to justify that wish. It's an idea of progress through weeding out non-progressives (and no, I will not take the analogy any further, it's creepy enough within the context of edition wars about roleplaying games). Their idea is this: for gaming to live and prosper, Philotomy Jurament has to quit gaming.

Philotomy Jurament doesn't have to quit gaming, he just needs to get out of the way.

In 5E terms, this means that the game doesn't contain so much grognard that it ruins the game for those of us who want a modern D&D.
"Other RPGs tend to focus on other aspects of roleplaying, while D&D traditionally focuses on racially-based home invasion, murder and theft."--The Little Raven, RPGnet

"We\'re not more violent than other countries. We just have more worthless people who need to die."

Marleycat

#56
May 08, 2012, 11:01:44 AM Last Edit: May 08, 2012, 11:05:28 AM by Marleycat
Quote from: thecasualoblivion;537335Philotomy Jurament doesn't have to quit gaming, he just needs to get out of the way.

In 5E terms, this means that the game doesn't contain so much grognard that it ruins the game for those of us who want a modern D&D.

That worked out real well for you already didn't it? 5e doesn't have to be BEMCI resurrected but it does have to have elements of it for it to be successful. If not, 4e is right there and it won't suddenly disappear. Modern is good but modern for modern's sake....you get the picture.
Don\'t mess with cats we kill wizards in one blow.;)

thecasualoblivion

#57
May 08, 2012, 11:06:52 AM
Quote from: Marleycat;537339That worked out real well for you already didn't it?

For me personally, it worked out great. For the brand, less so. For 5E, they want to go both(all) ways, and the trick will be balancing priorities as to not ruin it for either(any) side.
"Other RPGs tend to focus on other aspects of roleplaying, while D&D traditionally focuses on racially-based home invasion, murder and theft."--The Little Raven, RPGnet

"We\'re not more violent than other countries. We just have more worthless people who need to die."

Exploderwizard

#58
May 08, 2012, 11:07:41 AM
Quote from: thecasualoblivion;537335Philotomy Jurament doesn't have to quit gaming, he just needs to get out of the way.

In 5E terms, this means that the game doesn't contain so much grognard that it ruins the game for those of us who want a modern D&D.

Well 4E was pretty fucking grognard free IMHO. If you kids had ponied up the cash for the product instead of smugly saying " I don't need to buy books because I have DDI" then we might not be staring 5E in the face.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

Marleycat

#59
May 08, 2012, 11:08:21 AM
Quote from: thecasualoblivion;537340For me personally, it worked out great. For the brand, less so. For 5E, they want to go both(all) ways, and the trick will be balancing priorities as to not ruin it for either(any) side.

Yep. I'm interested to see if it can be done.
Don\'t mess with cats we kill wizards in one blow.;)
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