Quote from: Haffrung;530646Why would Paizo do that? First, they'd be shooting themselves in the foot by supporting a game that's in direct competition with their own. And second, they only have so much writing/editing/layout resources at their disposal. Writing adventures for WotC would mean cutting back on the release of Pathfinder adventures. Doesn't make sense.

Profit. And the fact that Pundit is right. A good portion of Pathfinder fans will play and buy 5e product if done right, bank on it.

Alot of them went to Pathfinder because 4e is 4e not 3.75/3.85e not because it's the savior of Dnd. The game has issues, big ones but it is a supported version of 3/3.5e with Adventure paths so alot of fans bite their tongue and grin and bear it.

The important thing they have done which will forever make them a player is that they are not on the suppliment mill. So they could easily branch out and not lose the core of their audience while making serious money in the bargain.

Quote from: Marleycat;530649Profit. And the fact that Pundit is right. A good portion of Pathfinder fans will play and buy 5e product if done right, bank on it.

If they do so, they are ran by complete idiots. Providing material for the other product risks loosing part of your products' audience. They'd be turning in some dubiously high short profit, in return for loosing long profit. There is not enough money in adventure supplements to risk such an approach.

Quote from: Rincewind1;530651If they do so, they are ran by complete idiots. Providing material for the other product risks loosing part of your products' audience. They'd be turning in some dubiously high short profit, in return for loosing long profit. There is not enough money in adventure supplements to risk such an approach.

It will depend on what kind of OGL/GSL there is or if Paizo decides to put out a second edition. Or even if 5e is successful and I don't mean 4e successful. That's why I see Wotc making the first move and it depends how sweet the deal is from there to see what Paizo would really do. I just see it being offered at the very least.

Quote from: Marleycat;530655It will depend on what kind of OGL/GSL there is or if Paizo decides to put out a second edition. Or even if 5e is successful and I don't mean 4e successful. That's why I see Wotc making the first move and it depends how sweet the deal is from there to see what Paizo would really do. I just see it being offered at the very least.

No Rincewind is right.
If the selling point of Pathfinder is Adventure Paths and the same (or of the same Quality ) APs are available for 5e then by definition some of the Pathfinder players will move to 5e.

Making APs for 5e only makes sense for Pathfinder if 5e has already destroyed the Pathfinder market. But I think its hard to go to being a Player and then step back to be a provider of support material for D&D again.

The RPG market is not big enough for Pathfinder to try and sail two ships at once.

In the end, the final decision will be determined by how much of the Pathfinder book sales are decimated, shortly after 5E is released.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the monthly Pathfinder book sales, are from the compulsive collector/completionist types.  The question is how much of that crowd will abandon the Pathfinder treadmill.

Quote from: RPGPundit;527938Also, I'll predict right here that IF 5e succeeds at that design goal stated above, Pathfinder will lose at least half its customers to 5e; all the ones who left D&D out of spite because it wouldn't be what they wanted it to be.

The problem I see with Pathfinder is that a very significant portion of its fanbase are people who'd rather be playing D&D, if they felt like they could.  They want a D&D that is currently supported, that supports their playstyle, and that isn't 4e.   Pathfinder is just the cheap floozy they're shacking up with until their wife gets off the sauce and they can stand to live with her again.  As soon as that happens, they'll dump the substitute like yesterday's news.

RPGPundit

Pundit, I don't want to burst your bubble, as I know you've pitched your tent to 5e and all, but...you're wasting your time. 5e is doomed to fail. It will fare no better than 4e did, and probably do worse. And it certainly won't defeat Pathfinder in the marketplace either. Does anyone really believe that Pathfinder is just going to magically lose half of its player base to 5e? I don't. I'm sorry, but it's just not realistic. An ever-increasing number of people just don't trust WoTC any more (for valid reasons), while Paizo, on the other hand, has a strong reputation simply by virtue of treating its customers right, and by the strength of its adventure paths for an edition that tons of people actually play.

I'm studying for a test, so I really don't have time to fully explain the other reasons why 5e is destined to fail (at least compared to Pathfinder), but I'll just say....WoTC is gonna blow it. You cannot please every proponent of every edition with a single game. If you attempt to do so, you risk creating a highly-diluted gaming experience that resembles wet cardboard. When creating a roleplaying game, you must draw a line in the sand somewhere, and make design choices to create both a coherent game, and a specific implied meta-setting. In doing so, they'll inevitably alienate huge chunks of gamers out there, because the D&D player base is totally fragmented right now.

I hate to post and run, as I want to get into a more detailed discussion about how AD&D and the OSR can potentially affect the hobby and the market, and also how the OGL was part of the key to 3e's success, and much, much more...but I don't have time. I really need to pass this test, so I'll just delve into this stuff later...

But yeah. 5e vs Pathfinder? Pathfinder wins. :pundit:

~Sacrificial Lamb

Quote from: jibbajibba;530664No Rincewind is right.
If the selling point of Pathfinder is Adventure Paths and the same (or of the same Quality ) APs are available for 5e then by definition some of the Pathfinder players will move to 5e.

Making APs for 5e only makes sense for Pathfinder if 5e has already destroyed the Pathfinder market. But I think its hard to go to being a Player and then step back to be a provider of support material for D&D again.

The RPG market is not big enough for Pathfinder to try and sail two ships at once.

We will see, thank God I am a winner no matter what happens so I really have no dog in this hunt. If 5e is successful great, it may be another game I like and support. If it fails I have Pathfinder win win for me.

Quote from: ggroy;530670In the end, the final decision will be determined by how much of the Pathfinder book sales are decimated, shortly after 5E is released.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the monthly Pathfinder book sales, are from the compulsive collector/completionist types.  The question is how much of that crowd will abandon the Pathfinder treadmill.

No doubt a lot of people buy RPG books as reading material. That's true for every RPG (how many people are actually playing Ars Magica versus buying the books just to read?). But I don't see how that's a treadmill. You're not chasing anything by buying, or falling behind if you don't buy.

Paizo has secured a large market of customers who buy high production value D&D adventures and setting material by subscription. Good for them. It's a perfectly valid business model. Frankly, I think it's a better business model for the hobby than endless splat books.

If 5E delivers a better D&D experience than 3E (PF did not fix any significant flaws) it will succeed.

It's a given that it won't be as shit as 4E.

Quote from: Fiasco;530748If 5E delivers a better D&D experience than 3E (PF did not fix any significant flaws) it will succeed.

It's a given that it won't be as shit as 4E.

4e is like the ultimate rock bottom.

It's like the dark ages of D&D.

It will forever live in infamy.

Years from now, people will look back and say, with a mix of horror and disbelief, what the f*ck were they thinking???!!

Woe to those who were upon the earth during the great Tribulation of 4e.

Quote from: 1989;530848Woe to those who were upon the earth during the great Tribulation of 4e.

4E becoming the infamous "lost edition"?

Quote from: ggroy;5308534E becoming the infamous "lost edition"?

1989 and myself can only hope, every dog has it's day it's a fact, like death.

Hmm...if 5E is designed to be modular/compatible with older D&Ds, then it may end up being accidentally Pathfinder compatible as well. (if not completely compatible, perhaps a few pages of conversion notes will do). If so, Paizo could gain more fans as a result of 5E coming out.

Unrelated to that, I have to wonder how much of 3E's success is due to the OGL (if nothing else, it meant a large number of companies that would otherwise have been competitors instead made 3rd party products for them  that in turn helped sell D&D books). Can 5E prosper without that? Or is there any chance they will attempt to do some sort of OGL for it?

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;530872Hmm...if 5E is designed to be modular/compatible with older D&Ds, then it may end up being accidentally Pathfinder compatible as well. (if not completely compatible, perhaps a few pages of conversion notes will do). If so, Paizo could gain more fans as a result of 5E coming out.

Unrelated to that, I have to wonder how much of 3E's success is due to the OGL (if nothing else, it meant a large number of companies that would otherwise have been competitors instead made 3rd party products for them  that in turn helped sell D&D books). Can 5E prosper without that? Or is there any chance they will attempt to do some sort of OGL for it?

Of course the reason 3e and by extension Pathfinder are/were successful is the OGL.  Right now Paizo doesn't do the splatcrap mill because 3pp's do it for them.

And yes if 5e is successful it will be somewhat compatible with Pathfinder.  From there the ball is in Wotc's court as I see it.

Quote from: ggroy;5308534E becoming the infamous "lost edition"?

Oh, you mean like that sequel to Highlander?

JG